Cybernetic: questions about traits & pop modding

[Elegant Caveman]

EDIT: Changed title from "Cybernetic: Enduring vs. Quick Learners?" since it's kind of moved on from that...

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Starting a new game, planning to go Cybernetic (haven't played in something like a year), Lost Colony origin.

Think I've pretty much settled on these starting traits:

Rapid Breeders (Pop Growth Speed: +10%)
Nomadic (Pop Growth from Immigration: +15%, Resettlement Cost: -25%)
Solitary (Pop Housing Usage: +10%)
Deviants (Governing Ethics Attraction: -15%)

That leaves me with one trait point and one trait pick, and I'm tempted by Enduring (Leader Lifespan: +20 Years) and Quick Learner (Leader Experience Gain: +25%).

Strongly leaning towards Quick Learner, as that would be more useful early on. Cybernetic will give me an extra 40 years, and there's whatever extra you get from tech. Figure that'll probably be enough, but I could always add Enduring later, I believe?

Just wondering if anybody has any strong opinions against this line of thinking. I may have forgotten something, or misunderstood how things work.

From what I understand, Cybernetic Ascension will let me add stuff, but since I only get Gene Tailoring, I won't be able to remove/change positive traits, only negative ones. I've tried to focus on "generalist" traits that I don't mind my whole population having, adding specialist ones later.

I've also considered starting with no traits, or less traits, to give myself more options later on, but that sounds less fun.

Cheers.

[Teyloune]

If you stick with the amount of traits you currently have, you will be very limited in how you can cybernetically enhance your species.

Also Solitary is an awful trait and will slow your pop growth, going straight up against some benefits that going cyborg can provide you with. very much not recommended. Picking Unruly is heavily recommended together with Deviants, to give you a lot of points trait points without being much of a problem.

I recommend sticking to about two positive traits for your species.
The Cyborg traits will also consume energy credits.

So going with traits like Ingenious to increase your energy production can be very helpful to balance that out. As a second trait Natural Engineers works very well.

Cyborgs also work especially well with Trade Value and the Thrifty trait, you will later be able to add a cyborg trait called Trading Algorithms which allows you to get another 25% trade value from jobs, which is really nice to have.

[Elegant Caveman]

Originally posted by Teyloune:

If you stick with the amount of traits you currently have, you will be very limited in how you can cybernetically enhance your species.

I was basing myself on this post:

Originally posted by CrUsHeR:

Modification Points:

+2 (Base)

+1 Gene Tailoring
+1 Targeted Gene Expressions
+2 Machine Template System
+1 Cross-Model Standardization
+1 Nanite Assemblers
(+1 Omnicodex / Ruined World digsite)
--------
= 8 (9)


Trait Picks:

+5 Base
+1 Integrated Anatomy (Cybernetics tier 2 tradition)
+1 Cybernetics Finisher Effect
-------
= 7

Are these numbers wrong?

Assuming I get rid of my two negative traits, I'm using 4/3, leaving me with 4 (5)/4, which doesn't seem so bad.

The idea would be to specialize different population "classes" from there. Does Cybernetic Ascension not allow for having multiple templates?

Originally posted by Teyloune:

Also Solitary is an awful trait and will slow your pop growth, going straight up against some benefits that going cyborg can provide you with. very much not recommended. Picking Unruly is heavily recommended together with Deviants, to give you a lot of points trait points without being much of a problem.

Thanks! This actually made me look at the breakdown of empire size.

It's something I tend to have issues with, but I didn't bother to look at how population, specifically, affects it. That +10% from pops seems pretty small, considering.

If I keep Unruly later on, I guess that would be more like 6 (7)/3... but I see how I'm getting limited in trait picks, with that approach...

Originally posted by Teyloune:

So going with traits like Ingenious to increase your energy production can be very helpful to balance that out. As a second trait Natural Engineers works very well.

Cyborgs also work especially well with Trade Value and the Thrifty trait, you will later be able to add a cyborg trait called Trading Algorithms which allows you to get another 25% trade value from jobs, which is really nice to have.

These are all things I considered adding later, when I specialized. But if I can't specialize, that changes the whole equation...

I usually go for bio ascension, so I'm used to having a bunch of different racial "branches".

Like Ingenious + Superconductive, Intelligent + Logic Engines, etc.

This is also where Nomadic comes in handy, with the reduced cost to forced resettlement.

If I can't do that, though, I have to reconsider my whole plan.

[Peter34]

Quick Learners is the kind of Trait that you either stat with or else don't take. But it is very good if you start with it, especially combined with the Learning Campaigns Edict (costs ECs) and maybe even Transcendent Learning.

If Cybernetic Ascensin gives you 1 more Trait Pick (slot) then you become able to add Enduring later, yes.

I often play based on the assumption that I'll get 2 genemod points during the game (one normal Tech, one purple), but since I use all my 5 Trait slots, I'll use 1 genemod point to remove Wasteful and the other one to add in Enduring into the previously emptied Trait slot.

Solitary isn't a bad bad Trait, since the game encourages you to over-build City Districts to open up Building Slots, and you'll get boosts to City Distircts so that they go from provding 5 Housing each to 7 or even 8. So needing more Housing is a non-problem.

Deviant is good too, in that it doeesn't in any way make the game unplayable. However, one argument for instead taking Unruly is that it's 1 Trait Slot that gives you 2 Trait Points. That's much more flexible and could enable you to start with something nifty like Enduring or Traditional.

In general, Trait modding during the game is rather restricted, so you benefit greatly from having a plan, especially if, as you say, you won't get the ability to remove good Traits. I tend to have a vague plan for genemodding and robo-modding, unless I'm playing Rogue Servitor in which case I'm not overly concerned with the 2 point I can mod my Bio-Trophies with.

[Elegant Caveman]

Originally posted by Peter34:

Quick Learners is the kind of Trait that you either stat with or else don't take. But it is very good if you start with it, especially combined with the Learning Campaigns Edict (costs ECs) and maybe even Transcendent Learning.

If Cybernetic Ascensin gives you 1 more Trait Pick (slot) then you become able to add Enduring later, yes.

I often play based on the assumption that I'll get 2 genemod points during the game (one normal Tech, one purple), but since I use all my 5 Trait slots, I'll use 1 genemod point to remove Wasteful and the other one to add in Enduring into the previously emptied Trait slot.

Solitary isn't a bad bad Trait, since the game encourages you to over-build City Districts to open up Building Slots, and you'll get boosts to City Distircts so that they go from provding 5 Housing each to 7 or even 8. So needing more Housing is a non-problem.

Deviant is good too, in that it doeesn't in any way make the game unplayable. However, one argument for instead taking Unruly is that it's 1 Trait Slot that gives you 2 Trait Points. That's much more flexible and could enable you to start with something nifty like Enduring or Traditional.

In general, Trait modding during the game is rather restricted, so you benefit greatly from having a plan, especially if, as you say, you won't get the ability to remove good Traits. I tend to have a vague plan for genemodding and robo-modding, unless I'm playing Rogue Servitor in which case I'm not overly concerned with the 2 point I can mod my Bio-Trophies with.

Thanks for the rundown.

You make a good point about building slots and city districts, I forgot it worked like that (if it even worked like that a year ago?).

I've never had trouble with housing usage, but empire size is always an issue. Teyloune did make me realize Unruly isn't as bad as I might have first thought, but still...

At this point, though, I'm thinking maybe I shouldn't even bother with negative traits at all. The whole point of taking some would be to take more positive ones early, and I'm no longer convinced that's a good idea.

I looked at the specific techs I quoted above, and now I'm having some doubt...

4 points (from Machine Template System, Cross-Model Standardization, and Nanite Assemblers) are supposedly only for mechanical/machine pops, according to the wiki (with Nanite Assemblers being only for machine intelligences), though the poster I quoted seems to be implying that this can be applied to cybernetic pops as well...

It would be nice if someone could confirm this actually works, and wasn't simply something in the beta that's changed.

I can easily count on Gene Tailoring, but Targeted Gene Expressions might take a while to get, if I get it, so maybe I shouldn't count on it.

Re-evaluating, that's 2 base points, and 1 from Gene Tailoring that I can count on.

In terms of getting extra points from negative traits, High Bandwidth is a cyborg trait that's functionally identical to Unruly, so maybe I should hold off on that.

I'll be able to remove negative biological traits with Gene Tailoring, but I won't be able to add them, so maybe I'm better off taking a couple to start with just to give myself a buffer. I guess I could take Unruly and High Bandwidth, but that feels like a bit much.

Solitary and Deviant are back on the table, I guess.

The idea was always to remove negative traits later anyway, as I got more points, but since I'm unsure how many I'll end up with, I'd rather play it safe.

---

My big question that remains is: with Cybernetic Ascension, can I make specialist pops, with multiple templates, or do I only get one "master template" for my whole race?

[Peter34]

The benefit of taking negative Traits is that you can later pay genemod or cybermod points (or robomod points) to remove them, adding flexibility. Only with Biological Ascension can you remove good Traits, but you're always free to remove bad Traits provided you can afford the point cost (an you cannot compensate for the point cost by adding new bad Traits, unless you have Bio Ascension).

There's nothing wrong with skipping bad Traits, or taking only a single 1 point bad Trait. Just try to make sure you look into the future to what you'll "peak" at once you maximize your trait modding potential for that play-through - and keep in mind that sometimes you might get a surprise bonus Trait modding point from a Relic, I think one of the Precursors. That's RNG, so nothing you can prepare for, but nice when it happens.

[Teyloune]

Starting with only two positive traits allows you to hyperspecialize your species into different fields over the course of the game, because you will always have the starting trait template on which you can add the positve traits you may want/need.

You should be able to pretty reliably hit 8 trait points to play around with, more if you get any from events or relics.
- You start with 2 additional ones, you get 4 from Engineering Research, and an additional 2 from the Society Research.

Allowing you to create a species that has traits like this for example:
Cybernetic, Intelligent, Thrifty, Efficent Processors, Natural Engineers, Logic Engines, Traiding Algorithms, and Deviants.
- My starting traits were Thrifty and Natural Engineers. Thrifty because Cyborg Merchants are awesome, and natural engineers to quickly get through the engineering research tree and find the research that I need in order to become cyborgs, and to modify my species faster into cyborgs, and quickly add any other species to join us.
- I kept Deviants for the very valuable 1 point it gives, and the negative effect is pretty much ignorable.

And if you interact with the Teacher of the Shroud for example, you can also pretty reliable get brainslugs on top of all of that, to boost your research even further. If you want that.

As Cyborg Empire you basically love species that only have a few traits on them, because of how wonderfully you can add anything you want onto them.

Also, here is a bonus tip: Traits like Budding work with your Assembly Standart and Cybernetic Components Policy to build Cyborgs faster, enjoy.

[Elegant Caveman]

Originally posted by Peter34:

The benefit of taking negative Traits is that you can later pay genemod or cybermod points (or robomod points) to remove them, adding flexibility. Only with Biological Ascension can you remove good Traits, but you're always free to remove bad Traits provided you can afford the point cost (an you cannot compensate for the point cost by adding new bad Traits, unless you have Bio Ascension).

There's nothing wrong with skipping bad Traits, or taking only a single 1 point bad Trait. Just try to make sure you look into the future to what you'll "peak" at once you maximize your trait modding potential for that play-through - and keep in mind that sometimes you might get a surprise bonus Trait modding point from a Relic, I think one of the Precursors. That's RNG, so nothing you can prepare for, but nice when it happens.

Originally posted by Teyloune:

You should be able to pretty reliably hit 8 trait points to play around with, more if you get any from events or relics.
- You start with 2 additional ones, you get 4 from Engineering Research,

I guess I've just been having a hard time believing Cybernetic gets that many points. I've been re-reading the wiki (and whatever other posts I could find on the topic, on various forums) more carefully, and it does seem to be the case...

If I'm understanding things correctly, there's basically a potential of 10 mod points accessible to the cybernetic path, though "only" 6 "easy" ones, and 8 counting rare tech. The last two being from a relic, and hybrid species.

You start with 2.

SOCIETY
1 from Gene Tailoring[stellaris.paradoxwikis.com]
1 from Targeted Gene Expressions[stellaris.paradoxwikis.com]

ENGINEERING
2 from Machine Template System[stellaris.paradoxwikis.com]
1 from Cross-Model Standardization[stellaris.paradoxwikis.com]
1 from Fungible Circuitry[stellaris.paradoxwikis.com].

OTHER
1 from The Omnicodex[stellaris.paradoxwikis.com]
1 from Hybrid species[stellaris.paradoxwikis.com]

Originally posted by Teyloune:

and an additional 2 from the cyborg tradition tree and finisher effect.

Aren't those trait picks, though, not trait points?

The wiki and some posts I've seen claim they're trait picks, but I've also seen posts (including yours) say they're trait points, so this is both confusing, and kind of a big deal.

I'm not aware of any other sources of trait picks (other than hybrids, which I'm not going to count on), and whether I end up with 5 or 7 picks will make a pretty big difference to my planning.

Originally posted by Teyloune:

Starting with only two positive traits allows you to hyperspecialize your species into different fields over the course of the game, because you will always have the starting trait template on which you can add the positve traits you may want/need.

That was my original plan, and why I tried to focus on starting traits that are useful for all of my pops, instead of just certain ones.

Ingenious and Natural Engineer are both great traits, for example, but only useful for pops who are actually doing relevant jobs.

It feels like a waste of a trait slot to give either/both to all my pops, since I won't be able to remove them.

Originally posted by Teyloune:

Allowing you to create a species that has traits like this for example:
Cybernetic, Intelligent, Thrifty, Efficent Processors, Natural Engineers, Logic Engines, Traiding Algorithms, and Deviants.
- My starting traits were Thrifty and Natural Engineers. Thrifty because Cyborg Merchants are awesome, and natural engineers to quickly get through the engineering research tree and find the research that I need in order to become cyborgs, and to modify my species faster into cyborgs, and quickly add any other species to join us.
- I kept Deviants for the very valuable 1 point it gives, and the negative effect is pretty much ignorable.

My plan is to save/reserve 3 trait points and 2 trait picks so I can create specialists in food/minerals/energy/trade/research. Two traits, with the biological one costing 2 and the cyborg one costing 1.

Going with the "easily acquired" points of 6 and a minimum of 5 trait picks, that leaves me with 3/3.

With 8 points, and if I get 7 picks, that leaves me 5/5, which is what I'm assuming I actually have to work with.

The more I look at my options, the more I'm convinced I have no use for negative traits, since I don't really want to lose on trait picks. They'd be more attractive if I wanted to stick to a single super-template, but I'm leaning more towards variety.

The things I'm looking at at this point (outside of resource specialties, as mentioned above), each costing 1 point:

BIOLOGICAL

• Natural Engineers (+15% Engineering Research from Jobs)
  
• Quick Learner (+25% Leader Experience Gain)
  
• Traditional (+10% Unity from Jobs)
  
• Strong (+20% Army Damage, +2.5% Worker Pop Resource Output)
  
• Nomadic (+15% Pop growth from immigration, −25% Resettlement Cost)
  
• Enduring (+20 years Leader Lifespan)

CYBORG

• Double Jointed (−10% Pop Housing Usage, +15% Pop Growth from Immigration, −25% Resettlement Cost, +0.3 Energy Upkeep)
  
• Durable (–0.5 Pop Amenities Usage, +0.3 Energy Upkeep)

I'm pretty sure Nomadic and Double Jointed will definitely get chosen, but I'm not entirely sure about the rest.

Quick Learner's a question of "start with it, or don't bother later".

I kind of want to wait with Natural Engineers until later, since that's only good for research, but it's really tempting to start with it.

Strong (which I'd want for the tiny resource boost; don't care about armies) and Traditional can wait, and, again, are for specialties.

In that sense, I consider Natural Engineer/Strong/Traditional to be "one choice", using them only in special cases/specialized planets.

Enduring and Durable are the ones I'm least attached to, though they'd be nice to have.

Or I could just forget about Quick Learner (which is only useful for leaders, after all)... maybe Natural Engineers would be better.

Well, that's where I'm at for now... still have some thinking to do.

If I had to pick 5 right now from the above list and stick with them, it'd probably be:

• Natural Engineers (+15% Engineering Research from Jobs)
  
• Traditional (+10% Unity from Jobs)
  
• Nomadic (+15% Pop growth from immigration, −25% Resettlement Cost)
  
• Double Jointed (−10% Pop Housing Usage, +15% Pop Growth from Immigration, −25% Resettlement Cost, +0.3 Energy Upkeep)
  
• Durable (–0.5 Pop Amenities Usage, +0.3 Energy Upkeep)

Originally posted by Teyloune:

Also, here is a bonus tip: Traits like Budding work with your Assembly Standart and Cybernetic Components Policy to build Cyborgs faster, enjoy.

I wouldn't have guessed that, thanks!

[Peter34]

If you don't trust the information in the Stellaris Wiki, you could try to start a test game and use console commands.

To get a lot of unity just type "unity 75000" in the console or an even higher value if needed. There's also a console command to unlock all techs but I don't know what it is. Try goggling it (you can also console command yourself a lot of stored Research with "Engineering 250000" etc, but that'll take time to eat up).

Then you can find out for yourself exactly how many Trait Points and Trait Picks you get from the Cybernetic Ascension.

It's been a while since I last did it (late November?), but some of the Traditions definitely give you Picks, not Points.

[Elegant Caveman]

Originally posted by Peter34:

If you don't trust the information in the Stellaris Wiki, you could try to start a test game and use console commands.

To get a lot of unity just type "unity 75000" in the console or an even higher value if needed. There's also a console command to unlock all techs but I don't know what it is. Try goggling it (you can also console command yourself a lot of stored Research with "Engineering 250000" etc, but that'll take time to eat up).

Then you can find out for yourself exactly how many Trait Points and Trait Picks you get from the Cybernetic Ascension.

It's been a while since I last did it (late November?), but some of the Traditions definitely give you Picks, not Points.

Ah, that's an excellent idea, thanks. I'll try that out!

[Teyloune]

Originally posted by Elegant Caveman:

Aren't those trait picks, though, not trait points?

The wiki and some posts I've seen claim they're trait picks, but I've also seen posts (including yours) say they're trait points, so this is both confusing, and kind of a big deal.

I'm not aware of any other sources of trait picks (other than hybrids, which I'm not going to count on), and whether I end up with 5 or 7 picks will make a pretty big difference to my planning.

I appologize for my mistake, Yes they are 2 Additional Trait Picks, not Trait Points.
The 2 Trait Points come from Gene Trailoring not the Cyborg Tradition Tree. I fixed that mistake in my previous post.
As your Organic Gene Modification Points also contribute to your Cyborg Modding.
You get +1 from both Gene Tailoring and Targeted Gene Expressions.

Getting your hands on the rare research options becomes quite easy with picking the Technological Ascendancy perk.

Originally posted by Teyloune:

You should be able to pretty reliably hit 8 trait points to play around with, more if you get any from events or relics.
- You start with 2 additional ones, you get 4 from Engineering Research, and an additional 2 from the Society Research.

In order to conduct your own Cyborg Research, the console commands you might need are:
unity 40000
Research_all_technologies
finish_special_projects

With those commands you can unlock the Traditions and Technology you need, and then you can instantly finish the special projects to change your species how you need.

Taking a look at the Tech-Tree might also be helpful:
https://turanar.github.io/stellaris-tech-tree/vanilla/


And to your question about Quick Learner, unless you start with the "On the Shoulders of Giants Origin", you usually don't need Quick Learner. Quick Learner would help you progress through the Dig Sites and anomalies faster, by getting your hands early on more skilled scientists.
In which case you would then also take Discovery as your First Tradition Tree, and activate the "Map the Stars" Edict to reall power through those Dig Sites and Anomalies.
When you aren't going for that, then it is usually not that helpful.

[Elegant Caveman]

Well, I've been messing around with console commands for a couple of days, now, and that was exactly what I needed!

Trusting information aside, it's one thing to read about it, and it's another to actually see how something works ingame for yourself.

Thank you both for your help.

Not only did I get my answers about cybernetics, but I've reacquainted myself with the game (definitely very rusty), and between testing stuff and watching videos on youtube, I've also got a decent handle on the civics, traditions, and ascension perks I'll be going for.

Funnily enough, the outcome is that I've basically re-evaluated my whole approach, so now the main thing holding me back is traits again... but at least now I have a much better idea of what I'm doing/looking for.

For the record, the wiki's correct (as expected). You do end up with 8 points (from tech) and 7 traits (2 from cybernetic).

I got lucky in my test game and found the Omnicodex... but forgot about it, so I was confused for a bit seeing I had 9 points. lol

Quick Learner and Enduring are off the table, so the original title of this thread is even more useless now.

I've also given up on Nomadic and Double Jointed. My main interest was for the cheaper resettlement cost, because I remember that being a huge pain last time I played... but it used to cost influence, didn't it? Energy and unity makes a big difference, there.

For my test, I didn't give my starting race any traits at all, and that actually works pretty nicely, as you can slap on so many of the cybernetic traits to have a very solid "base race" which you can completely modify for special circumstances.

Still, I'll probably be looking to start with one or two.

One thing I've vastly overestimated is how useful big bonuses are later on. Since it's all (or mostly all?) additive instead of multiplicative, it doesn't make a big difference.

For example, I have different pops working as technicians on the same planet. One with a 10% bonus, the other with a 45% bonus, and they're making 25.08 and 27.8 energy credits, respectively: https://i.imgur.com/WIC0ETr.png

Originally posted by Teyloune:

So going with traits like Ingenious to increase your energy production can be very helpful to balance that out. As a second trait Natural Engineers works very well.

Cyborgs also work especially well with Trade Value and the Thrifty trait, you will later be able to add a cyborg trait called Trading Algorithms which allows you to get another 25% trade value from jobs, which is really nice to have.

Which brings me back here. And as much as I am loathe to "waste" a trait slot on a specialization, those bonuses do matter a lot more earlier on.

Originally posted by Teyloune:

In order to conduct your own Cyborg Research, the console commands you might need are:
unity 40000
Research_all_technologies
finish_special_projects

With those commands you can unlock the Traditions and Technology you need, and then you can instantly finish the special projects to change your species how you need.

Those commands were very useful, thank you.

I ended up looking up the list on the wiki[stellaris.paradoxwikis.com], and checking out all sorts of other things, but those three alone would have done the job to quickly answer my original question about trait points and picks.

Originally posted by Teyloune:

Taking a look at the Tech-Tree might also be helpful:
https://turanar.github.io/stellaris-tech-tree/vanilla/

That could definitely come in handy, thanks!

Originally posted by Teyloune:

And to your question about Quick Learner, unless you start with the "On the Shoulders of Giants Origin", you usually don't need Quick Learner. Quick Learner would help you progress through the Dig Sites and anomalies faster, by getting your hands early on more skilled scientists.
In which case you would then also take Discovery as your First Tradition Tree, and activate the "Map the Stars" Edict to reall power through those Dig Sites and Anomalies.
When you aren't going for that, then it is usually not that helpful.

I'm fond of Discovery and Map the Stars in general (and will probably be starting with that this game as well), but I get your point, thanks.

It's certainly nice to have, but it simply doesn't seem worth a trait pick. At least not in my present situation.

[Teyloune]

Glad I was able to help.

[Elegant Caveman]

Originally posted by Teyloune:

Glad I was able to help. :Blessing:

[Peter34]

The reason the +45% bonus doesn't have much of an effect relative to the Pop with the +10% bonus, is that those bonuses stack with a *lot* of other percentage bonuses to Generator Technicial Job output. If you have, like +140% worth of other bonuses to that, then one Pop is +150% and the other Pop is +185%. There's a difference, but it's a bit washed out, partly drowned out.

So yes, Pop Trait bonuses are useful, but some people, including me, do have a tendency to get over-excited about them.

As for Quick Learner, though, I will absolutely defend that Trait.

It does extremely little for Admirals and Generals, and not much for Governors, but it's a really good Trait to boost Scientists, especially if you also get other +XP bonuses, and if you get lifespan extensions. I'd say I take Quick Learner in 75% to 85% of my games playing as normal polities, Corps or Machine Empires. Maybe more rarely as Hive Minds, but not much. If I'm not taking it then it's possibly because I'm trying an Overtuned Hive Mind playthrough where I maybe actually dare to press the "up to 11" Edict button.

[Elegant Caveman]

Originally posted by Peter34:

The reason the +45% bonus doesn't have much of an effect relative to the Pop with the +10% bonus, is that those bonuses stack with a *lot* of other percentage bonuses to Generator Technicial Job output. If you have, like +140% worth of other bonuses to that, then one Pop is +150% and the other Pop is +185%. There's a difference, but it's a bit washed out, partly drowned out.

So yes, Pop Trait bonuses are useful, but some people, including me, do have a tendency to get over-excited about them.

Yup, that's the problem with additive bonuses. Even knowing about it, though, actually seeing the numbers came as a bit of a shock. It's easy to overestimate the bonuses. As you say, get over-excited about them.

Originally posted by Peter34:

As for Quick Learner, though, I will absolutely defend that Trait.

It does extremely little for Admirals and Generals, and not much for Governors, but it's a really good Trait to boost Scientists, especially if you also get other +XP bonuses, and if you get lifespan extensions. I'd say I take Quick Learner in 75% to 85% of my games playing as normal polities, Corps or Machine Empires. Maybe more rarely as Hive Minds, but not much. If I'm not taking it then it's possibly because I'm trying an Overtuned Hive Mind playthrough where I maybe actually dare to press the "up to 11" Edict button.

Damn it, I'm too easily swayed... now I'm kind of tempted to take it... lol

I had mostly decided on Intelligent, Traditional, and Solitary as a start, which would leave me with mostly enough wiggle room to specialize in various ways later.

Locking in Intelligence like that does kind of waste a slot, but I figured it would be worth it for the extra boost to tech.

I really want Traditional, because I've always been a sucker for Unity and it's even better now, but I'm actually thinking about Quick Learners and Enduring again, except now as an "and", not as an "or".

Maybe just Traditional and Quick Learners... or Intelligent and Quick Learners...

I still have some thinking to do, I guess. But I'm getting closer!