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Voidborne sucks for Void Dwellers?
Am I missing something or is it just not a very good perk when you're playing void dwellers? The only thing it really does void dwellers is +2 building slots on habitats and lets you upgrade your housing buildings, but the housing doesn't look very compelling because it's not that much. I guess in the long run if you really build dozens and dozens of habitats it would be good?

I guess it makes it worse that in my current game I can colonise planets anyways so im not totally dependent on habitats.
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Showing 1-15 of 30 comments
HappySack Jan 4, 2023 @ 2:07pm 
It also increases habitability for all pops living on habitats so if you're relying on a lot of habitats then it would go a long way but as you noted the only real reason to get it is just for the building slots.
Nobelissimos Jan 4, 2023 @ 2:11pm 
Originally posted by HappySack:
It also increases habitability for all pops living on habitats so if you're relying on a lot of habitats then it would go a long way but as you noted the only real reason to get it is just for the building slots.

The increased habibility applies to all species in your empire right? Void dwellers get 100% but I think it's only for the starting species. But 20% probably isn't that big of a deal for habitats, especially when you get that to 100% through tech later on.
HappySack Jan 4, 2023 @ 2:16pm 
Yeah, it's for the other species living on the habitats so they don't suck up as many amenities and food as the voidborns.
ナルゴ Jan 4, 2023 @ 2:19pm 
The +2 building slot matters when you consider the new reworked empire sprawl. Eventually the penalties get in the way. And having a bunch of habitats with 2 extra space spares you from having to build yet more habitats for whatever purpose you intend. It's also very good for when you're utilizing buildings that grant multiplier bonuses for other buildings.
Xaphnir Jan 4, 2023 @ 3:56pm 
"Only" +2 building slots
BigTurnip Jan 4, 2023 @ 9:43pm 
only 2 building slots lol
Originally posted by Xaphnir:
"Only" +2 building slots


Originally posted by BigTurnip:
only 2 building slots lol
Peter34 Jan 5, 2023 @ 1:59am 
I tried playing Void-Dwellers some, maybe a year ago, and I was pining for more Building slots. Pining hard. It's absolutely valuable to get +2 slots per Habitat!

(Furthermore, I was using a mod at that time that made it impossible to take Voidborne as one's first Perk, meaning I had to wait until my 2nd Perk to unlock those slots, which really sucked! I've since managed to persuade the mod-maker to include an exception for the Void-Dwellers Origin in his mod.)
CrUsHeR Jan 5, 2023 @ 2:19am 
Well. Normally, your habitats have 1 free build slot. Adding +2 is an increase of 200%.
So this should always be the first pick for Void Dwellers.

With the pop growth mechanic changes, the build slots are more important now than ever before:

Habitats normally start with the "approaching planetary capacity" penalty, which means pops can only grow with around 1.5 speed. The only way to undo this is to add at least 1 habitation district, however this falls back to the capacity penalty quickly.

So in theory you needed 2 habitation districts while you still expect growth, means that jobs have to come from buildings. Also the housing buildings help with capacity, and may even be required for some habitats to utilize the real estate properly (usually when you have researched all the habitat and build slot upgrade techs).

And of course you need either a robot assembly plant or a clone vats. takes up another build slot. Psionic additionally need the Psi Corp, which is pretty nifty since you can build it at 10 pops (as opposed to the regular 25).



Bottom line, Void Dwellers is probably the worst origin right now. Habitats are too expensive to build and maintain, pops grow too slow, and your void dwellers even grow on 100% habitability planets despite receiving -30% happiness there.

As you noticed, once you can settle regular planets, the whole origin already has nullified its purpose and practically every other origin would have been better.
Last edited by CrUsHeR; Jan 5, 2023 @ 2:22am
cayenne_spicy Jan 5, 2023 @ 2:10pm 
Void Dwellers isn't the worst origin, that's nonsense. The origin has only one significant problem which is that it's double-gated in growth by influence. This is also true of megacorps. Other civ types are only single-gated in growth by influence (outposts/claims). Playing Void Dwellers and a megacorp is definitely the worst origin, though.

But, Void Dwellers is powerful if you build your civ and its ruler around maximizing influence income first, and alloy income second, so that you reach an equilibrium point in which every time your influence surpasses 120 you will have 1200 alloys and can start building another habitat.

Yes, you can also settle planets. If you're playing Void Dwellers correctly, you don't really want to, early on. Planets exist only as a place to exile conquered/refugee/bought pops that aren't of your main race and so will not do as well on habitats. Relic worlds are top tier because an ecumenopolis is a great place to drop all those refugees.

You want the Incubators trait on your main species. They'll grow like mad on your habitats. Build a robot assembly plant on each one as your first building and upgrade it eventually when you can. If you plan to ascend Bio or Cyborg, build a gene clinic on each habitat as your second building and upgrade it when you can. The rest of your buildings depend on what you'll be using the habitat for.

Be sure to fill out the Mercantile tradition tree. Habitats you aren't sure what to do with can be made into big contributors to your economy by loading them with trade districts and commercial buildings and disabling all the clerk jobs. Just a habitat with a politician and a pile of merchants. If you can get into a trade federation or start one, enjoy the unity and goods income those will get you. :D
Half Phased Jan 6, 2023 @ 1:35am 
Outside of the “challenge” origins, void dwellers are definitely the worst, I’d even rate life seeded as better, namely as once you’ve you’ve got Gaia terraforming, the Baol or another species, the worst restrictions are over and you have a very good homeworld still, where as with void dwellers you just have… habitats. And an alloy hemorrhage.
Ryika Jan 6, 2023 @ 1:45am 
Void Dwellers still have some of the strongest tech rush openers in the "not obviously broken"-category of Origins.

Combine it with technocracy and Meritocracy, and you'll have more than enough research to force your way into the tech tree and transition into a strong Destroyer or Cruiser push without ever having to build a single habitat.

Done well, that was a multiplayer meta build a year or two ago. Has received some nerfs since then, but it fundamentally still works, especially if combined with Incubators. It's just overshadowed by all the insane builds we got since then.
Last edited by Ryika; Jan 6, 2023 @ 1:52am
Half Phased Jan 6, 2023 @ 3:30am 
Originally posted by Ryika:
Void Dwellers still have some of the strongest tech rush openers in the "not obviously broken"-category of Origins.

Combine it with technocracy and Meritocracy, and you'll have more than enough research to force your way into the tech tree and transition into a strong Destroyer or Cruiser push without ever having to build a single habitat.

Done well, that was a multiplayer meta build a year or two ago. Has received some nerfs since then, but it fundamentally still works, especially if combined with Incubators. It's just overshadowed by all the insane builds we got since then.

Part of what made void dweller meritocracy/technocracy tech rush so powerful was the free unity from researchers, so you’d start the game with 15% better researchers producing unity and could get a *lot* of them very quickly.

Since then, the combination has been battered time and time again. It’s typically better to go for functional architecture to reduce building costs and get an extra building slot, since technocracy no longer gives free unity.

In addition, the switch to industrial districts really did it in for void dwellers, especially early game as they can only get 10 metallurgists per habitat, up to a resounding 18 on habitat worlds. Otherwise known as a pittance. Whilst they do get +15% alloy output, it’s still not enough to stem the hemorrhage of 5 alloys per habitat in upkeep.

And the empire size changes, where habitats are worth as much size as a planet, but are far less valuable and there is no way to mitigate that also really did it in for a void dweller tech rush, as even if you avoid building more habitats and go for planets, you still have 3 habitats dragging down your empire.

TLDR, what made void dweller meritocracy technocracy good was the absurd research and unity gain at no major cost increase over regular empires. Now, without the unity generation and the extra 5 alloy upkeep per habitat, the build no longer has the economy to keep up with other empires. A more traditional empire will be able to keep pace in both unity and research and doesn’t have drag of habitat upkeep so it can actually afford to build the ships it researches.
Ryika Jan 6, 2023 @ 4:31am 
Originally posted by Half Phased:
Part of what made void dweller meritocracy/technocracy tech rush so powerful was the free unity from researchers, so you’d start the game with 15% better researchers producing unity and could get a *lot* of them very quickly.

Since then, the combination has been battered time and time again. It’s typically better to go for functional architecture to reduce building costs and get an extra building slot, since technocracy no longer gives free unity.

In addition, the switch to industrial districts really did it in for void dwellers, especially early game as they can only get 10 metallurgists per habitat, up to a resounding 18 on habitat worlds. Otherwise known as a pittance. Whilst they do get +15% alloy output, it’s still not enough to stem the hemorrhage of 5 alloys per habitat in upkeep.

And the empire size changes, where habitats are worth as much size as a planet, but are far less valuable and there is no way to mitigate that also really did it in for a void dweller tech rush, as even if you avoid building more habitats and go for planets, you still have 3 habitats dragging down your empire.

TLDR, what made void dweller meritocracy technocracy good was the absurd research and unity gain at no major cost increase over regular empires. Now, without the unity generation and the extra 5 alloy upkeep per habitat, the build no longer has the economy to keep up with other empires. A more traditional empire will be able to keep pace in both unity and research and doesn’t have drag of habitat upkeep so it can actually afford to build the ships it researches.
Even with the nerfs, it still plays just fine and works great against the AI. Which is not surprising, since it was on a very high power level for its time. Now it's certainly nowhere near the top anymore, but saying it's "the worst" out of the the "challenging origins" is just absurd.

The "core" benefit of the build is that you get easy access to research districts, all of your three planets from day 1 and a Head Researcher per habitat really easily. All of this frees you from a lot of the investments that other empires have to make early, which allows you to focus heavily on research.

As for your arguments, the 5 Alloys upkeep per habitat was already there when the build was Meta, as were Industrial Districts, and Empire Size in particular doesn't matter to the rush, since you won't be hitting 100 until shortly before you start conquering your neighbors. You're not meant to build more Habitats afterwards, you're meant to conquer the galaxy. And Functional Architecture is generally only used for the Trade-focused version of Void Dwellers as far as I'm aware, the Technocracy-version does not need it.
Last edited by Ryika; Jan 6, 2023 @ 4:31am
CrUsHeR Jan 6, 2023 @ 5:32am 
Originally posted by Ryika:
You're not meant to build more Habitats afterwards, you're meant to conquer the galaxy.

Yeah that's what i expected. Your "super-awesome" VD build only works with max players and warmonger politics.

But what if you start on the empty side of the map, and don't make contact for at least 50 years? No Pre-FTL, presapients, no Caraveneer pops?
Or, god forbid, you want to play a peaceful utopian empire?

Void Dwellers on their own are barely half as good as regular empires, as Half Phased explained the ratio of alloy production vs. upkeep is completely off the scale. You would need about every third or fourth habitat being a foundry with corresponding mineral needs.

With the consecutive nerfs to influence income and bonus sources, it isn't even possible to maintain diplomacy, build outposts, and then also still afford habitats.

Also it happens to find yourself in an area with absolutely no research deposits on planets far and wide, then you can already start over.
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Date Posted: Jan 4, 2023 @ 1:54pm
Posts: 30