Desperate- Plz recommend me a game like Stellaris (Grand Strategy)

[Wolf]

Stellaris is the greatest grand strategy game I have ever played. I have played it to death now and I need something similar that is equally good. Before I continue, let me say I do not think you can help me and my very niche needs but if anyone can, it would be the Stellaris community. I know we have all played similar games and have similar taste so I think you can understand my frustration of not finding a better game than Stellaris and games I'm using as a reference.

For reference, these are games I would say are similar and that do it for me like Stellaris has (in order) so plz do not recommend as I've already played/enjoyed these:
- Total War series (Med II, Shogun II, Rome II, and WH3 being the best/my favorite in series)
- Mount and Blade Bannerlord
- Crusader Kings III
- Kenshi (freedom, can command squads across maps, build bases/fortresses, etc.)
- ROTK series (9 and 11 being my favorite)
- Rimworld-type games

The above games/game series are the closest to Stellaris-quality I have ever found and that do the below, and what I want the new game must bring to the table:

1) New-ish (nothing later than 5-10 years)
2) Huge Grand Strategy/Huge Open Campaign Map, not RTS unless it has a HUGE open world/open campaign, and not limit you to small maps. Good examples: Games referenced above. Bad example: Warcraft, Age of Empires, Civilizations, Kessen etc.
3) Games were you can build up fortresses, focus on choke points, have strategic plans.
4) Games that in-game time span years/decades, not days/weeks/months. So again, most of the games I referenced above. Games I think I want to avoid are Hearts of Iron that focus on more like hours/days/weeks, won't go over 5-yr period.
5) Avoid games with linear story and if there has to be one than the game must have many, many side quests. Prefer open-ended, make your own story in your campaign. Bad example: Starcraft, Warcraft (plus again, these are RTS' with small maps).
6) Similar to above but game should be sand-boxy.
7) Very much preferably be a game where you can build up individual leaders/units, upgrade them, etc. Example: Stellaris' presidents/ generals, Total War's generals/heros/units, Crusader Kings' council-member, Knights....etc..
8) Must provide 30/40+hrs in a single playthough. This eliminates most Civilization games, Age of Empires, etc. I want a LONG Stellaris/TW type playthough, not something I can get through in a matter of hours.

Games I have considered recently but backed out of since it lacked one or more reasons listed above (you'll notice most of these games are indy games which I consider really good and match my niche gaming prerequisites)

Hegemony III: Clash of the Ancients
Spellforce 3
Wartales
Northguard
The Iron Oath
Against the Storm
Farthest Frontier
Symphony of War

These game came very close but didn't make they cut (or should they?)

Farthest Frontier, Hegemony III, and Spellforce 3, seemed like the best match for me but it still they lacked the IT factor. Farthest Frontier's map does not seem grand enough, resembles more small RTS Warcraft maps, not Stellaris/Total War massive maps. Same with Spellforce, but in addition, seems to story-based/linear. Not sandboxy, open-ended campaign-like that I like. Hegemony seemed almost perfect but game doesn't seem technologically advanced

My perfect game would be a mix of Good and Evil/Total War/Warcraft mix but modernized for 2023+. The very few games I've seen like this are old and don't compare to the games I referenced above.

So what do I do? I have looked up and considered 95% of games in this field and have eliminated most. Stellaris and the games I mentioned at the very top are the best of the best of the best. The GOATS. But I have played them all and want to see more...Did I perhaps miss a game? Overlooked one? Underratted a game that should be here? If you can help me suggest a new game, great. And if you read through all this, thank you too. I hope it wasn't for nothing and maybe your next game will be a game you just found out about on this post as well. Cheers.

[PlutonArioch]

Your list of "similar games" makes it slightly difficult to know what exactly you are looking for. So Total War and Mount and Blade are similar to Stellaris, but Civilization is not?
Honestly I am also struggling to find a game that can scratch that Stellaris itch, but is not Stellaris. So I just play Stellaris for that.

Well I'll try to recommend something anyways, even though I feel it is more similar to Civ than Stellaris, but bear with me:
Age of Wonders.
Specifically AoW III (Fantasy) and AoW Planetfall (SciFi). They are both turn based 4x games on a hexagon map, with a bit of RPG sprinkled on top, and turn based tactical combat (XCOM style) when forces fight (optional, can be manually or automatically resolved like in Total War).
Why? Lets go through your list of what you are looking for:

Originally posted by TonyDragon:

1) New-ish (nothing later than 5-10 years)

AoW III is from 2014 so just about within that time, while Planetfall came out 2019.

Originally posted by TonyDragon:

2) Huge Grand Strategy/Huge Open Campaign Map, not RTS unless it has a HUGE open world/open campaign, and not limit you to small maps. Good examples: Games referenced above. Bad example: Warcraft, Age of Empires, Civilizations, Kessen etc.

Both AoW titles have several campaigns(with DLC), as well as randomly generated maps that can be quite large. Planetfall also has an Empire mode, where you get to play on endless random maps with the same heroes, and you can choose from different random maps for each step as well as choose the size of each map.
Both are turn based games so no RTS.

Originally posted by TonyDragon:

3) Games were you can build up fortresses, focus on choke points, have strategic plans.

In both games you can (and should) fortify your cities, and you can build smaller fortifications as well, which can then be turned into cities with some prebuilt defenses if you want. Choke points depend on the specific maps, but there are some, and you can certainly strategize your approach. Be careful though... while most units can not cross mountains for example, both games feature flying units that can. There are also certain ways to flatten mountains...

Originally posted by TonyDragon:

4) Games that in-game time span years/decades, not days/weeks/months. So again, most of the games I referenced above. Games I think I want to avoid are Hearts of Iron that focus on more like hours/days/weeks, won't go over 5-yr period.

The in game time span is often abstract. In Total War Warhammer for example, it just counts turns, while in some other Total War games a turn is a month, and in others again a turn is half a year... AoW just counts turns, and you can see it as any time span you like.

Originally posted by TonyDragon:

5) Avoid games with linear story and if there has to be one than the game must have many, many side quests. Prefer open-ended, make your own story in your campaign. Bad example: Starcraft, Warcraft (plus again, these are RTS' with small maps).

As I said there are campaigns, but you don't have to play them. I think the campaigns in AoW III are quite linear, while at least the main campaign in Planetfall lets you decide the outcome. But again you can just play random huge maps as well, just like in Stellaris.
There are some "side quests" I guess. Mostly, go there and kill whats there for some reward. There are some quests with fluff text telling you small stories in Planetfall.

Originally posted by TonyDragon:

6) Similar to above but game should be sand-boxy.

What exactly do you mean by sand-boxy?
You decide where to put your cities. There are usually different possible approaches how to win a story campaign map, and on skirmish maps, you also have several victory types to choose from. You decide who to kill and who to ally with (unless they hate you for some reason). You decide when to finish the game (unless you lose of course).

Originally posted by TonyDragon:

7) Very much preferably be a game where you can build up individual leaders/units, upgrade them, etc. Example: Stellaris' presidents/ generals, Total War's generals/heros/units, Crusader Kings' council-member, Knights....etc..

So, in AoW you stat by customizing your main leader (who is also a unit on the battlefield), from appearance and race, to specialty (schools of magic in AoW III and secret tech in Planetfall), which determines what you can research and which special units you get. During the game you can also hire heroes, which can level up like your leader, and you can choose new skills for them, as well as equip them with new equipment you find during the game. In Planetfall, you also get to customize your normal units a bit with new tech, which can make the most basic units still very viable (but more expensive) in the end game.

Originally posted by TonyDragon:

8) Must provide 30/40+hrs in a single playthough. This eliminates most Civilization games, Age of Empires, etc. I want a LONG Stellaris/TW type playthough, not something I can get through in a matter of hours.

Well, similar to Civ, this depends on the size of the map, and the amount of enemies, as well as the speed at which you play, but as I said, in Planetfall there is also an endless campaign mode where you get to play on as many huge random maps as you want.
I have spent more than 40 hours on several campaigns here. But then again, I think that should also be possible in Civ games...


This might not exactly be what you are looking for, but it seems to fit relatively well, and you did not mention it yet. I would recommend to give it a shot at least. I personally prefer Planetfall, because it is the newer one, looks a bit better, and has some quality of life improvements over AoW III, but they are both good games.
https://store.steampowered.com/app/226840/Age_of_Wonders_III/
https://store.steampowered.com/app/718850/Age_of_Wonders_Planetfall/

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I have played a little bit of Hegemony III: Clash of the Ancients. From what I remember it is a very minimalistic RTS. Could be fun for a short time, but it did not grab my attention long enough to finish a game.

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Here are some more potentially interesting titles. Maybe you have already looked at them, since you say you have seen and eliminated a lot already, but since I don't know what you looked at:

I have heard that Distant Worlds might be similar to Stellaris, but it does not look that interesting to me, so I never tried it and can say nothing about it.

Star Ruler could be interesting as well, but its old (2010). It is an RTS but played among star systems. I don't remember how big you can make the galaxy. Its has a true 3D galaxy.
Star Ruler 2 is a bit newer (2015), but has a 2D galaxy like Stellaris, and some other changes I did not like.

If you have not tried them, the XCOM games (classic and reboot series) might be worth a look as well, although they are more focused on short small tactical missions, and base building / resource management in between. The reboot series also has a mod called "long war" which extends the already relatively long runtime of the campaign and makes it potentially harder.

If XCOM is interesting, also have a look at Xenonauts, which is very similar to classic XCOM but a little bit newer(2014). There is a second game planned, but I have been waiting on a release date announcement for years by this point. Its coming soon™ apparently...

AI War (1 and 2) could also be interesting, but I have not yet played a campaign (I keep putting it on my backlog) so I can't say how long it could be. You are fighting for your survival in a galaxy against an AI (thus the title) and you need to be careful to avoid its attention, or it will crush you (or so I have heard).

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Well, I tried...

[bri]

Endless Space 2 fits a lot of those items IMO or the fantasy version Endless Legend (may be "too old", not sure when it came out).

[ナルゴ]

If you can stomach 90's graphics, turnbased gameplay, and multiplayer, then dominions 5 might be up your alley. It has scale & very varied options, however it only truly shines in multiplayer where people can apply aforementioned options in creative ways.
I honestly consider Stellaris extremely basic compared to it.
https://store.steampowered.com/app/722060/Dominions_5__Warriors_of_the_Faith/

[Stormwind]

Gonna second PlutonArioch up there, Stellaris and AoW are two of my favorite games of all time, I have more time in AoW than I think any other game, and they scratch similiar itches for me.

AoW doesnt have the large maps you want, so it may not fit what you are looking for. But its a very good game anyway, you can spend hours on it as a thinking game.

[Sea Base]

Originally posted by bri:

Endless Space 2 fits a lot of those items IMO or the fantasy version Endless Legend (may be "too old", not sure when it came out).

^^^^^^ Endless Space 2 is fantastic alternative to Stellaris.

[Wolf]

Originally posted by PlutonArioch:

Well, I tried...

PlutonArioch, you did very well and understood me and my niche preferences, so thank you.

I MEANT to include AoW Planetfall on my "very close" list and was very close to try it out several times. I think I stopped short since it didn't seem "long-enough campaigny" for me but your comment about Planetfall being potienally endless is intriguing:

"Planetfall there is also an endless campaign mode where you get to play on as many huge random maps as you want."

Is this on one single playthough with the same race/lord I created from the start? Can this single campaign provide me 30hrs+?

And does AOW 3 not have this feature, it's more of a Planetfall feature?

And on AOW 3 vs Planetfall. I do see the fantasy/scifi difference of both. I automatically went more with Planetfall since it was the newer game and I think you even mentioned you prefer Planetfall as well since it's a bit newer with quality of life changes. I think, pending no other stronger recommendations, I will finally give Planetfall a try. Do you recommend starting with any of the DLC (money is no issue)?

I like Xcom but not really what I'm looking for here.

Thanks again. I am reviewing all of the comments/games recommended here when I can.

[Azunai]

Have you played Europa Universalis 4? It's somewhat similar to crusader kings (though closer to ck2 than ck3).

[PlutonArioch]

Originally posted by TonyDragon:

"Planetfall there is also an endless campaign mode where you get to play on as many huge random maps as you want."

Is this on one single playthough with the same race/lord I created from the start?

They call it "Galactic Empire mode", It is basically a framework around the normal AI Skirmish mode which many games like this have. In this mode you keep playing randomly generated maps, which you can adjust a bit to your preferences (you can choose the size and difficulty for example). Any time you choose a map, the game generates 3 new random maps to choose from next (similar to how research works in Stellaris).
You can create up to 50 leaders to play as, or hire (you can select which ones are available to hire as heroes), while playing on those random maps. Any time you finish one map, the leader you selected for this map levels up permanently (for this empire playthrough), I don't believe hired heroes also level up but I am not sure about that right now. You can play multiple maps at the same time, but any character that is the main leader on another active map, is unavailable (as leader) until you finish that map.

Some maps in this mode allow you to find certain "relics", which if you collect them, will allow you to buy NPC faction (or "wild") units that are usually not available to player factions at will, for any maps you play after finishing this one.
You also collect points for the different player factions and secret tech varieties, by playing as them, or by fulfilling optional quests on the maps, which unlocks those faction and secret tech units and equipment pieces to be bought as well going forwards.

It is basically skirmish mode, but with upgrades and extra units that you can take to the next skirmish. It is also at the same time harder and easier than skirmish mode. Harder, because it adds challenges to most maps, and easier because over time and several finished maps, you get access to a lot more things that would normally not be available together, or at all, and your heroes/leaders start at higher levels, making you more powerful than in the standard Skirmish mode.

Since the point of the game in Story and Empire mode is to unify all the warring factions under one new empire, you are meant to play all the factions across different maps in this mode, but I believe you can do it by just playing with one faction if you really want to. It would probably take a lot longer to collect xp for the other factions, and certain factions can deal better with certain challenges than others.

Originally posted by TonyDragon:

Can this single campaign provide me 30hrs+?

I would say playing a single map can take over 30 hours. depending on how you play. If you play very fast, and autoresolve most battles, maybe not. But if you play on big maps, like to make plans, fight battles manually, and don't rush through everything I'd say 30 hours per map is certainly possible - especially while you are still learning the game. I have played several skirmish maps for longer than 30 hours. But maybe I play a lot slower than you. That is certainly possible :P
Empire mode will take a lot more time to collect everything. Although the maps here might be a bit shorter to play through than in skirmish mode on average, as you are meant to play a lot of them in succession.
I do not think that there is an end to Empire mode, but I never played it for long enough to find out.

Originally posted by TonyDragon:

And does AOW 3 not have this feature, it's more of a Planetfall feature?

This mode specifically is only in Planetfall. You can create and save custom leaders in both, but only to play in AI skirmish or multiplayer matches, starting from level 1 every time.

Both games also have story campaigns where you play certain leaders over several maps. In Planetfall you can customize those leaders to some extent too, I don't think you can do that in AoW III, but I am not sure. I have not played the stories in AoW III much.
in Planetfall's main campaign each faction gets one (customizable) leader you play as on two or three maps, until they all clash in the final mission where you can choose to play any leader whose mini campaign you finished. Obviously you do not have to finish all mini campaigns to unlock the final mission. I have not played through the DLC campaigns yet, but I think they are shorter, and more focused on one (probably customizable) leader.

AoW III might have the edge in map size though, since every map there has two layers to it. The underground can open up some different strategies, as well as increase the playable area by a lot.

Originally posted by TonyDragon:

Do you recommend starting with any of the DLC (money is no issue)?

If money is really no issue, I would recommend buying the full package, to have all the options. I don't like everything every DLC adds, but every DLC also adds things I don't want to miss. It's your call though if you want to spend that kind of money without knowing if you actually like the game.

[Jimmy Hunter]

I find that Stellaris with Mods is one of the best Grand Strategy outside of Stellaris.

[Wolf]

Originally posted by PlutonArioch:

Originally posted by TonyDragon:

"Planetfall there is also an endless campaign mode where you get to play on as many huge random maps as you want."

Is this on one single playthough with the same race/lord I created from the start?

They call it "Galactic Empire mode", It is basically a framework around the normal AI Skirmish mode which many games like this have. In this mode you keep playing randomly generated maps, which you can adjust a bit to your preferences (you can choose the size and difficulty for example). Any time you choose a map, the game generates 3 new random maps to choose from next (similar to how research works in Stellaris).
You can create up to 50 leaders to play as, or hire (you can select which ones are available to hire as heroes), while playing on those random maps. Any time you finish one map, the leader you selected for this map levels up permanently (for this empire playthrough), I don't believe hired heroes also level up but I am not sure about that right now. You can play multiple maps at the same time, but any character that is the main leader on another active map, is unavailable (as leader) until you finish that map.

Some maps in this mode allow you to find certain "relics", which if you collect them, will allow you to buy NPC faction (or "wild") units that are usually not available to player factions at will, for any maps you play after finishing this one.
You also collect points for the different player factions and secret tech varieties, by playing as them, or by fulfilling optional quests on the maps, which unlocks those faction and secret tech units and equipment pieces to be bought as well going forwards.

It is basically skirmish mode, but with upgrades and extra units that you can take to the next skirmish. It is also at the same time harder and easier than skirmish mode. Harder, because it adds challenges to most maps, and easier because over time and several finished maps, you get access to a lot more things that would normally not be available together, or at all, and your heroes/leaders start at higher levels, making you more powerful than in the standard Skirmish mode.

Since the point of the game in Story and Empire mode is to unify all the warring factions under one new empire, you are meant to play all the factions across different maps in this mode, but I believe you can do it by just playing with one faction if you really want to. It would probably take a lot longer to collect xp for the other factions, and certain factions can deal better with certain challenges than others.

Originally posted by TonyDragon:

Can this single campaign provide me 30hrs+?

I would say playing a single map can take over 30 hours. depending on how you play. If you play very fast, and autoresolve most battles, maybe not. But if you play on big maps, like to make plans, fight battles manually, and don't rush through everything I'd say 30 hours per map is certainly possible - especially while you are still learning the game. I have played several skirmish maps for longer than 30 hours. But maybe I play a lot slower than you. That is certainly possible :P
Empire mode will take a lot more time to collect everything. Although the maps here might be a bit shorter to play through than in skirmish mode on average, as you are meant to play a lot of them in succession.
I do not think that there is an end to Empire mode, but I never played it for long enough to find out.

Originally posted by TonyDragon:

And does AOW 3 not have this feature, it's more of a Planetfall feature?

This mode specifically is only in Planetfall. You can create and save custom leaders in both, but only to play in AI skirmish or multiplayer matches, starting from level 1 every time.

Both games also have story campaigns where you play certain leaders over several maps. In Planetfall you can customize those leaders to some extent too, I don't think you can do that in AoW III, but I am not sure. I have not played the stories in AoW III much.
in Planetfall's main campaign each faction gets one (customizable) leader you play as on two or three maps, until they all clash in the final mission where you can choose to play any leader whose mini campaign you finished. Obviously you do not have to finish all mini campaigns to unlock the final mission. I have not played through the DLC campaigns yet, but I think they are shorter, and more focused on one (probably customizable) leader.

AoW III might have the edge in map size though, since every map there has two layers to it. The underground can open up some different strategies, as well as increase the playable area by a lot.

Originally posted by TonyDragon:

Do you recommend starting with any of the DLC (money is no issue)?

If money is really no issue, I would recommend buying the full package, to have all the options. I don't like everything every DLC adds, but every DLC also adds things I don't want to miss. It's your call though if you want to spend that kind of money without knowing if you actually like the game.

Again, thank you. I'm actually gonna give it a go. I don't know how the hell this is legal but I bought Planetfall with all the DLC for like $3 on a key site. There are many sites that have it this cheap. Really no exuse for me to not try it and again it was already on my "very close" list and the Galactic Empire Mode appeals to me..

[PlutonArioch]

Originally posted by TonyDragon:

Again, thank you. I'm actually gonna give it a go. I don't know how the hell this is legal but I bought Planetfall with all the DLC for like $3 on a key site. There are many sites that have it this cheap. Really no exuse for me to not try it and again it was already on my "very close" list and the Galactic Empire Mode appeals to me..

Ok, at that price it is a steal. Legal? It might be, I don't know.
I think the Premium Edition of Planetfall was in a humble bundle for like $12, together with a couple of other great games this year... I guess Planetfalls part in that price was about $3 and some people could be selling those keys separately now. Which may not be illegal (I am not sure), but is certainly against humble's TOS.
Or it was bought with stolen credit cards, which is definitely illegal. You never know with these key sites.

I think I paid about $90 in total over some time (DLCs), and I feel it was worth it, but I had played AoW III before and knew I'd like this one too.

[PlutonArioch]

Here is another game that might interest you. I can't tell you anything from experience though, as I have not tried it myself yet, but I saw this a while ago and want to eventually try it as well.
Star Dynasties: https://store.steampowered.com/app/1194590/Star_Dynasties/
It seems to be a bit like a mix between Stellaris and Crusander Kings. No custom aliens, only humans, you play as a feudal(ish) ruler, but in space. Seems to be more focused on political intrigue than conquest.

[Pathogenic]

No mention yet in this thread of Galactic Civilizations III (I haven't tried GC IV yet). Also Master of Orion 2 (old game, but still excellent), or the more recent 2016 remake of Master of Orion.