Influence: never enough!

[VulcanTourist]

I'm having trouble managing Influence. Even when I managed to get my starbase Influence cost down to 22, I still was constantly in shortage and struggling to expand for lack of being able to build as many outposts as I would like. Of course building vanguard outposts far from the front line is pretty untenable and expensive, since the Influence cost of just one for being beyond the frontier makes doing that untenable when many more outposts could be built by patiently leveraging proximity rather than leaping for chokepoints.

One empire I thought I had on the ropes after occupying all but three of its systems, but then it gained most of them back without building a single new fleet simply because I couldn't amass enough Influence to lay legal claim to everything I had occupied before the game ended the gambit with an unsolicited peace! Ugh!

How do I maximize Influence gain and prioritize its use to avoid those "Influence chokepoints"?

[Immortalis]

There are traits, ethics, buildings (the one you build on your subject world) and even game mechanics (having protectorates, becoming the emperor, setting rivalries) that increase the influence you generate; there are also agreements that reduce the amount of influence you generate.

In the end though, the game was specifically designed so that influence is a finite resource and as a result you have to prioritize its usage even if that means you cannot have everything you want.

In the early game you need to decide which system you want to expand in, then it becomes an issue of "should I claim that system, put forward a resolution in the GC, store that influence to amend the subject agreement etc?".

Just remember that anything you cannot do now you can do later and not taking over an additional star system right now just means you're going to take it over the next time.

[ScreamCon]

Diplomatic agreements cost influence to maintain, mouse over the influence to see how much your losing. Defence pacts and like eat a lot. Agreements do have bonus to friendliness so its like converting influence into friends.
Vassals levelling up can chew through influence

You want to maximise sources of influence, but also minimise expenditures diplomatically. Cheaper claim costs help in war but you only want to build starbase far away if you have to. As far away starbase cost will eat many months of hard work influence generation.

You will feel it as ai will in same time be able to build more starbase or claim more.

There is lots of sources but all sources eventually soft cap at thresholds making influence a limited strategic resource. Think of it like the other precious resources. You can only store up to 1k so you do have to think fast how you want to best spend it.

[Mennan]

Claims cost more after you declare war unless your specifically in a defensive war.
So you should be making as many claims as you can before the war even begins.
Also start building a bigger fleet so you gain more through force projection, and declare some rivals.
Then you do things like take traditions and ascension perks that increase influence gain or reduce influence costs.
Either way usually in larger galaxy games with massive empire sizes its unlikely to be able to claim their entire empire in one go unless your in a total war scenario.

[Duuvian]

Very early on when you are exploring with science ships if you set your first contact policy to the one that tries to establish contact you can get a chunk of influence if you can decrypt the communications before the other side does. Usually if you set the envoy as soon as you make contact with an unknown ship you can be the first to make contact. That would help bank a bit more influence at the start, at least.

[Foolswalkin]

Originally posted by Duuvian:

Very early on when you are exploring with science ships if you set your first contact policy to the one that tries to establish contact you can get a chunk of influence if you can decrypt the communications before the other side does. Usually if you set the envoy as soon as you make contact with an unknown ship you can be the first to make contact. That would help bank a bit more influence at the start, at least.

I was actually wondering about this one. Whenever you win the first contact race, you get influence. Being set to "Open" get you more influence for winning the race, but setting it to "Cautious" gives the other party a +2 increase in Difficulty at successfully passing through each stage of contact. So Cautious makes you more likely to win (assuming you both start at the same time), while Open increases the rewards for when you do win. Seems like either one could be better for early influence, depending on RNG in both contact roles and who is near you (e.g. you'll do better being Open if your first contacts are mostly Enclaves and space fauna).

OP:
I'm recently back so a. I share your pain and b. I think these are working for me but I don't believe they are necessarily optimal.

While lots of other people have alluded to cost reducting options already, I would call out two in particular that aren't too hard to get.
1. It costs 1 Tradition point to unlock the Diplomacy tradition tree, worth it IME if you're going to be running a lot of pacts. The 50% Diplomatic Influence cost can be very large. I remember someone saying Xenophile also reduced it but I can't confirm.
2, Universal Transactions is something I often take if I'm a non-Criminal Corp because ideally I'd like a Commercial pact with everyone.

Also, if another Empire likes me so they are willing to have comms links or sensory data (as opposed to the -1000 trade value), they're usually willing to sell them for a handful of energy credits. I always pick sensory data just to have it, but if I have extra envoys to spare I won't get comms links so that I can start the First Contact process and possibly snag the free Influence. If I don't have the envoys to spare I pick comms and see if there are far-off empires I'd like to Rival for essentially free Influence.

Finally, if you have Galactic Threat near you (Exterminators, Devouring Swarm, Purifiers) its good to have some extra fleets on the border. If they come for you, Defensive War bonuses and built-up Starbases at choke points, easy Debris collection. If they start a war with someone else, they'll likely have their main fleets out of position, and you don't have to claim systems from one of these factions to keep them at the end of the war, so you can hit them in the flank while they are off being horrible to someone else.

[HappySack]

The easiest way is to increase your power projection which is based on your total fleet size relative to your empire size and your ships don't even need weapons or components to count.

Secondly, declaring a rival also increases influence gain but it's a good idea to choose someone far away so they can't actually declare war on you (but watch out for future wormholes that can close the gap).

Lastly, playing a friendly empire with a cordial first contact stance and completing first contact gives like 150 influence or something every time.

Otherwise if you want to decrease claim cost then there are dozens of different ways but influence is one of those resources where you either have too much of it or too little and there's never a balance.

[VulcanTourist]

Originally posted by Mennan:

Claims cost more after you declare war unless your specifically in a defensive war.
So you should be making as many claims as you can before the war even begins.

Ah, *that* explains the huge increase in expense of claims that I saw! I need to plan better. Now I know why the AI is making claims against me even during peacetime.

Originally posted by Mennan:

Also start building a bigger fleet so you gain more through force projection, and declare some rivals.

These I did know, as the game is at least successful in teaching the player about those through tooltips.

Originally posted by Mennan:

Then you do things like take traditions and ascension perks that increase influence gain or reduce influence costs.
Either way usually in larger galaxy games with massive empire sizes its unlikely to be able to claim their entire empire in one go unless your in a total war scenario.

What is total war?

I know about ascension perks and I've unlocked all the slots in this first game, but I'm avoiding choosing the last two as I don't want to make ill-advised choices and I worry that additional choices might get added at some point.

Also, what are the ascension tiers for planets? I have 800K in saved unity, so I could afford to use that on some planets.

Originally posted by Foolswalkin:

If they start a war with someone else, they'll likely have their main fleets out of position, and you don't have to claim systems from one of these factions to keep them at the end of the war, so you can hit them in the flank while they are off being horrible to someone else.

I don't understand this. Can you explain this effect and how it's exploited in more detail?

[Foolswalkin]

Originally posted by VulcanTourist:

Originally posted by Foolswalkin:

If they start a war with someone else, they'll likely have their main fleets out of position, and you don't have to claim systems from one of these factions to keep them at the end of the war, so you can hit them in the flank while they are off being horrible to someone else.

I don't understand this. Can you explain this effect and how it's exploited in more detail?

Well, the one is just that the game rewards large single fleets, so if they're off conquering someone else their forces are over there and you can clean up their backline. But I suspect you mean the other thing.

It's explained more here under "Paired Wargoals" (which also explains what a total war is - a war under a Causus Belli where surrender is basically impossible to accede to due to a -1000 penalty):

https://stellaris.paradoxwikis.com/Warfare

But as I understand it, if a. either side of a war has a civic that allows/compels them to be a genocidal threat to the galaxy then b. whenever war fatigue (the only outcome possible besides total victory when surrender is impossible) compels a peace, all sides keep whatever systems they have conquered (even if they aren't claimed). So if you are one of these, you can keep stuff without claiming it if you're fighting under your genocidal causus belli, and if you're fighting against one under the Containment Causus Belli, likewise.

[EleventhStar]

you are in 2400+

make sure you are using unity ambition will to power (in your edicts) for +5 influence. it's from a society tech called ascension theory in case you haven't unlocked the ambitions yet. (unless those are still DLC gated, i forget)

and yeah claim wars are the most expensive type of war. subjugation is free and total war is the no hassle easy solution (you get it from colossus project ascension perk if you don't have it from civics)

[Elitewrecker PT]

Originally posted by VulcanTourist:

Originally posted by Mennan:

Claims cost more after you declare war unless your specifically in a defensive war.
So you should be making as many claims as you can before the war even begins.

Ah, *that* explains the huge increase in expense of claims that I saw! I need to plan better. Now I know why the AI is making claims against me even during peacetime.

Originally posted by Mennan:

Also start building a bigger fleet so you gain more through force projection, and declare some rivals.

These I did know, as the game is at least successful in teaching the player about those through tooltips.

Originally posted by Mennan:

Then you do things like take traditions and ascension perks that increase influence gain or reduce influence costs.
Either way usually in larger galaxy games with massive empire sizes its unlikely to be able to claim their entire empire in one go unless your in a total war scenario.

What is total war?

I know about ascension perks and I've unlocked all the slots in this first game, but I'm avoiding choosing the last two as I don't want to make ill-advised choices and I worry that additional choices might get added at some point.

Also, what are the ascension tiers for planets? I have 800K in saved unity, so I could afford to use that on some planets.

Originally posted by Foolswalkin:

If they start a war with someone else, they'll likely have their main fleets out of position, and you don't have to claim systems from one of these factions to keep them at the end of the war, so you can hit them in the flank while they are off being horrible to someone else.

I don't understand this. Can you explain this effect and how it's exploited in more detail?

I think I've said this before to you but Total Wars are a specific type of wargoal available to and against genocidal empires and against Awakened Empires. They're a type of war where as soon as you fully occupy a system its ownership swaps to the empire who occupied it (or to an empire already bordering that system if they're also in the war), and without having to make claims.

Ascending your colonies increases the effect of their designations and reduces their impact on empire size - i.e. planets produce more and your tech costs are reduced

[Foolswalkin]

Originally posted by EleventhStar:

you are in 2400+

make sure you are using unity ambition will to power (in your edicts) for +5 influence. it's from a society tech called ascension theory in case you haven't unlocked the ambitions yet. (unless those are still DLC gated, i forget)

and yeah claim wars are the most expensive type of war. subjugation is free and total war is the no hassle easy solution (you get it from colossus project ascension perk if you don't have it from civics)

I think Feudal + Barbaric or Nihiliistic Acquisition is a fun "soft vassalcide" civics option if you don't want the full diplomatic downsides or government/ethics/civics limitations of a Gestalt or the Purifiers. You can abduct a lot of the pop of an empire while ruining their buildings, steal a bunch of mineral and energy and slap a further such penalty on their recovery, and be back a decade to subjugate the remains.

[Castlegate]

Rather than trying to claim an entire AI empire at once, you could claim a reasonable-sized chunk that's closest to your borders (since claim influence cost increases with distance). Take that chunk, end the war, and then repeat with another AI empire while the truce ticks down with the first one. Then go back to the first AI empire, make claims for less influence (since your borders moved at the end of the first war), and declare war on them again. You will get more systems per influence point that way, but it will take longer.

[Bermag]

You can do total war by just having a colossus so no need to be a genocidal empire. Note that this can work against you as well.

[Elitewrecker PT]

Right, forgot that one this time.

[VulcanTourist]

Originally posted by EleventhStar:

make sure you are using unity ambition will to power (in your edicts) for +5 influence.

I had but wasn't using it because I was in a war with three empires (again) and felt I neede another one to survive it. I just now swapped them because the war ended. Maybe I'll have enough Influence now for claims to precede the next war!

Originally posted by Elitewrecker PT:

I think I've said this before to you but Total Wars are a specific type of wargoal available to and against genocidal empires and against Awakened Empires. They're a type of war where as soon as you fully occupy a system its ownership swaps to the empire who occupied it (or to an empire already bordering that system if they're also in the war), and without having to make claims.

Thank you, doubly so if you told me before and I didn't hear it. This will be nice when I can get it, and I might already have an Awakened empire because there's a Fallen one that had a crusade against another adjacent empire and took over a large chunk of its territory. Now that my failure to keep territory taken from that same empire has restored some of it, those Fallen may resume their crusade (they didn't have a beef with me also taking their territory).

Originally posted by Castlegate:

Rather than trying to claim an entire AI empire at once, you could claim a reasonable-sized chunk that's closest to your borders (since claim influence cost increases with distance). Take that chunk, end the war, and then repeat with another AI empire while the truce ticks down with the first one. Then go back to the first AI empire, make claims for less influence (since your borders moved at the end of the first war), and declare war on them again. You will get more systems per influence point that way, but it will take longer.

Yes, I'm learning to do this! The war I just ended gave me one contiguous chunk added, but also separate ones because I was exerting control over both ends of pesky wormholes.

Originally posted by Bermag:

You can do total war by just having a colossus so no need to be a genocidal empire. Note that this can work against you as well.

I yet have no clue what a colossus is....