Idea For Improving Post-Apocalyptic Origin (Relatively In-Depth)

[Arcane Teuton]

So we all know that this origin is nearly useless, and even harmful in the event that alien species ever want to migrate to your homeworld... They will produce absolutely nothing due to the 0% habitability if you don't consider the 20% that CAN be granted by tech.

I'm going to suggest some improvements for the origin, that will not only make it a bit more interesting, but much more viable as well.


First, let's start with the "Survivor" Trait:
1. Decrease the 70% tomb world habitability to 30%.
-Your species doesn't love living on a tomb world, it has learned to tolerate it. It still yearns for the planet type that they lived on before the nuclear apocalypse.

2. Add 20% habitability to the trait.
-The species has become hardened and can adapt to just about any environment by having to live on a tomb world of all places. While not perfectly tuned to every environment, they are much more capable of tolerating foreign environments due to their recent past.
-Makes adaptive and extremely adaptive traits incompatible with the species.

3. Add -10% or -20% pop consumer goods upkeep.
-The species has had very little opportunity to indulge itself with consumer goods given the situation they find themselves in. As a result, they require much less to keep themselves happy given the hardships they have endured, and they have adapted to live a much more stoic lifestyle.
-Incompatible with conservationist trait

4. The leader lifespan thing can either be removed, increased, or stay the same. 10 years really is pretty minor but I guess if the origin won't be powerful enough given the buffs I have suggested, then I guess it wouldn't hurt to have a very minor positive effect on top of everything else.

______________

That's what I think needs to happen with the survivor trait. Now, in order to make the origin more interesting, I have some more ideas:

1. Later in the game when you unlock terraforming, you will receive a "story" event which asks you to terraform your homeworld back into its original state. This means you will need to terraform your homeworld into whatever planet type your species prefers at the start of the game. When completed, this will add a permanent modifier to your homeworld, "Home Restored" or something along those lines, which grant a variety of positive effects. I'm thinking it will definitely grant bonus happiness, but I'm thinking it will have to grant much more than just that. Perhaps stability, or bonus production. I was thinking that upon completing the event either you would get a boatload of unity, and/or the planet's modifier gets a bonus to unity production. Could be the same modifier, or a stronger version of the modifier granted from gaia worlds.
- I have been thinking, and perhaps this event could also be completed if you terraform your homeworld into a gaia planet or an ecumonopolis. Alternatively, perhaps you just need to terraform your planet into ANY habitable planet.
-If you accept the Worm, this event will automatically be completed once terraforming has been researched, but the planet modifier will be renamed to "New Home." Your species no longer yearns for it to be restored to its previous state or another habitable state, since it has become fully adapted towards living on tomb worlds. Rather, your species accepts its new home, and you get the bonuses that you would otherwise get if you terraformed your world normally.


Everything above is what I think is needed to make this origin both interesting, and viable. Below is another additional idea, but I don't see it necessarily NEEDED, though it certainly would be nice.

1. Upon colonizing planets with the same type as your main species' original preference, it will receive a modifier called "Reminder of Home." This grants a small bit of happiness, maybe some production or unity bonuses as well. Whatever the devs may think fits. Basically, the species has not forgotten the climate that their homeworld once had, and they are happy to experience it once again. Maybe it could just be the same modifier that you get from gaia worlds.
-This will NOT be removed upon terraforming your homeworld via the quest above. The traumatic event of nuclear war which totally devastates the entire planet is not easily forgotten, and your species will simply be more happy upon their original climates.
-This might be changed upon accepting the Worm, and affect tomb worlds instead of the main species' original preference, the modifier instead being named "Taste of Home."
-Unclear whether such modifiers would be removed upon terraforming the planet, whether it be to any other type, a gaia planet, or an ecumonopolis.
-But I am thinking that these modifiers will only be granted if the planet ORIGINALLY was the same type as your species' preference. But who knows. Maybe this origin could offer a complete alternative to picking up the gaia world terraforming ascension perk, in that every planet of your original climate type not only grants 100% habitability to your main species, but also provides planetary modifiers equal to or stronger than TERRAFORMED gaia worlds. (May or may not grant 100% habitability to alien species separate from your main species. That may be one downside, if it doesn't grant any extra habitability to alien species. However, being almost as good as gaia worlds while forgoing an ascension perk... That'd be a considerable boon.)

2. Alternatively and/or additionally, such planets might be prime candidates for consecrated worlds as well. Perhaps consecrating a planet that fits the criteria above for the modifier "Reminder of Home" or "Taste of Home" has the same weight as a gaia world, being guaranteed the highest level of holiness. Additionally, this could also satisfy the spiritualist faction's desire to consecrate a gaia world.




These are some ideas I had to make the origin more viable and interesting. Please let me know what you think. I am not set on the specific values, but I think this is a good framework to work off of.

[talemore]

Too late, start with terraform, that's it.

[Arcane Teuton]

Originally posted by talemore:

Too late, start with terraform, that's it.

What are you talking about?

[Kapika96]

You want to make it more viable by nerfing it? Because that's what changing tomb world habitability to 30% would be.

Nah, if you really want to make it better then it would be better to change it to tomb world preference rather than an additional trait. It's actually the best habitability trait available, and is pretty rare. 80% on tomb worlds and 60% on all other planets is just far superior to every other habitability trait. Add to that, make your guaranteed planets tomb worlds too. Then not only are you getting 80% habitability planets but you're also an unappealing target since other empires can't really use your planets either. Plus, living on tomb worlds gives you the chance for the +20% tomb world habitability tech which would give all of your main planets 100% habitability much sooner than any other species could get that.

It's also worth noting that it synergises very well with fanatical purifiers, your nerf would remove that synergy. Well, at least it would synergise well if armageddon bombardment wasn't bugged and actually turned planets to tomb worlds. Being able to turn enemy planets into your own preferred planet type easily, for free and right from the start of the game is very useful.

[tempest.of.emptiness]

If they wanted to make Post-Apocalyptic a viable origin then all that they would need to do is replace Survivor with Tomb World preference. They could have given Tomb World preference from the start, and that is what players were expecting when they asked to be able to start with a tomb world as a starting planet. Instead they went out of their way to create the Survivor trait, ensuring that it would be a sub-standard civic (now origin).

Assuming they did make that change, then I would want them to add the option to terraform planets into tomb worlds, because that would then be your actual planetary preference.

[Arcane Teuton]

Originally posted by Kapika96:

You want to make it more viable by nerfing it? Because that's what changing tomb world habitability to 30% would be.

Nah, if you really want to make it better then it would be better to change it to tomb world preference rather than an additional trait. It's actually the best habitability trait available, and is pretty rare. 80% on tomb worlds and 60% on all other planets is just far superior to every other habitability trait. Add to that, make your guaranteed planets tomb worlds too. Then not only are you getting 80% habitability planets but you're also an unappealing target since other empires can't really use your planets either. Plus, living on tomb worlds gives you the chance for the +20% tomb world habitability tech which would give all of your main planets 100% habitability much sooner than any other species could get that.

It's also worth noting that it synergises very well with fanatical purifiers, your nerf would remove that synergy. Well, at least it would synergise well if armageddon bombardment wasn't bugged and actually turned planets to tomb worlds. Being able to turn enemy planets into your own preferred planet type easily, for free and right from the start of the game is very useful.

I hadn't thought about the fanatic purifiers thing, but for most empires tomb world habitability isn't important. Tomb worlds are exceptionally rare, and while I suppose they can be created if your empire is a fanatic purifier, it's still not very viable.

Changing the habitability to 30% as a base value, but add on the 20% from the additional habitability bonus. They will still have 50% habitability on tomb worlds. If you really wanted to keep it the same, then reduce tomb world habitability to 50%, but have the 20% additional habitability still, which would result in not only 70% habitability by default for tomb worlds, but also 20% extra habitability for all other worlds.

My suggestions aren't set in stone. I've just never played a game where this origin was actually useful, and it feels like it is such a cool origin that it should be more useful.

Let's not forget to mention that you can still get tomb world preference by accepting the worm as well.

[Kapika96]

Originally posted by Tarnil Corvax:

Originally posted by Kapika96:

You want to make it more viable by nerfing it? Because that's what changing tomb world habitability to 30% would be.

Nah, if you really want to make it better then it would be better to change it to tomb world preference rather than an additional trait. It's actually the best habitability trait available, and is pretty rare. 80% on tomb worlds and 60% on all other planets is just far superior to every other habitability trait. Add to that, make your guaranteed planets tomb worlds too. Then not only are you getting 80% habitability planets but you're also an unappealing target since other empires can't really use your planets either. Plus, living on tomb worlds gives you the chance for the +20% tomb world habitability tech which would give all of your main planets 100% habitability much sooner than any other species could get that.

It's also worth noting that it synergises very well with fanatical purifiers, your nerf would remove that synergy. Well, at least it would synergise well if armageddon bombardment wasn't bugged and actually turned planets to tomb worlds. Being able to turn enemy planets into your own preferred planet type easily, for free and right from the start of the game is very useful.

I hadn't thought about the fanatic purifiers thing, but for most empires tomb world habitability isn't important. Tomb worlds are exceptionally rare, and while I suppose they can be created if your empire is a fanatic purifier, it's still not very viable.

Changing the habitability to 30% as a base value, but add on the 20% from the additional habitability bonus. They will still have 50% habitability on tomb worlds. If you really wanted to keep it the same, then reduce tomb world habitability to 50%, but have the 20% additional habitability still, which would result in not only 70% habitability by default for tomb worlds, but also 20% extra habitability for all other worlds.

My suggestions aren't set in stone. I've just never played a game where this origin was actually useful, and it feels like it is such a cool origin that it should be more useful.

Let's not forget to mention that you can still get tomb world preference by accepting the worm as well.

For one thing it doesn't "need" to be useful. Cool is enough. Not all of the origins are going to be as good as each other, but that doesn't matter. Some extra flavour would be nice (although I'd prefer that in the sense of embracing tomb worlds, rather than trying to switch your planet back to its original state).

Plus if you end up starting near those event systems with 4 or so decently sized tomb worlds then it can be a very useful origin indeed.

As for the worm event, that's an awesome event! Quite possibly the most OP event in the game!

[Arcane Teuton]

Originally posted by Kapika96:

For one thing it doesn't "need" to be useful. Cool is enough. Not all of the origins are going to be as good as each other, but that doesn't matter. Some extra flavour would be nice (although I'd prefer that in the sense of embracing tomb worlds, rather than trying to switch your planet back to its original state).

Plus if you end up starting near those event systems with 4 or so decently sized tomb worlds then it can be a very useful origin indeed.

As for the worm event, that's an awesome event! Quite possibly the most OP event in the game!

If you want to embrace tomb worlds, that's where the worm event comes into play. As I stated before in my suggestions, embracing the worm would override the event to return your planet to its original state, and instead you would auto-complete that event because they no longer wish for their old planet due to their new tomb world preference.

The post-apocalyptic scenario just doesn't meld well with the idea of accepting tomb worlds entirely. What, just because your planet got nuked into such a desolate state, you start preferring desolation and such? Tolerating is one thing, but preferring is a whole new one.

You have two options. Embrace the worm, therefore embracing the tomb worlds. Or, refuse the worm and keep your relatively high tomb world habitability, but preference for your default climate type. It would give the player two options.

And let's not pretend that the fanatic purifier civic isn't incredibly powerful already. Even then, this would probably buff them too. Think about it, 20% habitability for every planet type, -10-20% consumer goods upkeep for pops... All for what, 20% less habitability on tomb worlds that you can easily obtain through war and bombardment? Something that can be remedied mid/late game by embracing the worm?

Let's not forget the habitation technology. I don't recall if the 4 5% habitability techs affect tomb worlds, but think about it. Upon researching such tech, and having my idea where you would have a total of 50% habitability on tomb worlds by default, you could potentially get 70%-90% habitability on tomb worlds later in the game. That's huge, especially considering that's mid to late game, where you will encounter the worm event or really start ramping up your war efforts. If you are a fanatic purifier, you can turn every hostile planet into a greatly preferred place to live without the need to gene mod or terraform, you simply just need to bomb and capture it. Tomb worlds don't become less habitable in the grand scheme of things. In reality, this would probably be a straight buff.

Edit:
Now that you mention this strategy, it might be preferable to even bump down the bonus tomb world habitability to 10% or 20%, meaning they would get 30-40% habitability on tomb worlds at the bare start of the game. Think about it, no one wants to live on a tomb world unless they embrace the worm, or unless they grew up on a tomb world. Being able to turn every enemy planet into a preferred planet type for yourself is incredibly powerful, and don't act like a 20-40% reduction in tomb world habitability for the origin would absolutely devastate those poor fanatic purifiers.
Either you can destroy the entire planet and suffer the consequences of doing so (unless you embrace the worm, then it is just a straight positive) or displace pops in a more methodical and slow manner by conquering the world without causing devastation to it. This allows you to not only enslave the alien pops and gradually displace them, but you get to keep the habitable planet, among the other modifiers it may have had.

[Meewec]

Originally posted by Kapika96:

Nah, if you really want to make it better then it would be better to change it to tomb world preference rather than an additional trait. It's actually the best habitability trait available, and is pretty rare. 80% on tomb worlds and 60% on all other planets is just far superior to every other habitability trait.

this is actually what it originally was but got changed because it was too good to start with.