Materialists getting psionics?

[Celestial Tesla]

I am playing fanatic materialists. I have read that the only way for materialists to get psionics. Is for them to get a psionic scientist. But i have read people saying they have never gotten a psionic scientist as a materialist. So does anyone know if it is possible for materialists to get a psionic scientist (or any reliable way for them to get psionics)?

[kesat]

Yaldabaoth님이 먼저 게시:

Zubenelgenubi님이 먼저 게시:

The blatant favoritism towards materialists is becoming way too much. There is no reason to play anything else. Choosing spiritualist you are accepting a 10% reduction on literally everything except food which is pretty useless, and there are zero benefits.

Eh, I found spiritualists to be actually a lot more powerful. Materialists gives your guys in labs a few more percent. If pops are "happy" ALL of them get 10% more of EVERYTHING, if you manage to reach joyful make that 20%. If anything, materialists get zero benefits.

Yep, personally i prefer spiritualist too. In combination to some other modifier your pops are actually "never" going to change their ethos which makes it very easy to get 100% Happiness on pretty much any planet once you start genetic engineering.

Materialist is pretty useful too though. But it's not favored.

[Mansen]

Zubenelgenubi님이 먼저 게시:

The write up for materialists claims they've left superstitions like psionics behind. There is nothing in the spiritualist write up about them being complete luddites. If your goal was to make the game lore meaningless this is a good start.

Except you know... that's just flavour text. And they make plenty of other cases for not allowing robotics in any way. What with them being soulless machines, not allowing robotics by law unless you force the issue, and being the OPPOSITE ethos of Materialist.

[Zubenelgenubi]

I don't even know what to say. My respect for the devs just plummeted if they can't remain objective and instead try to justify everything with rhetoric.

If materialist scientists prove psionics are real, they have proven the beliefs of the spiritulists using their own science. It's as simple as that.

[Astasia]

Zubenelgenubi님이 먼저 게시:

How are psionic scientists even appearing in materialist societies without some giant schism in beliefs? And they can actually use the tech with no effect on their materialist beliefs as well?

The blatant favoritism towards materialists is becoming way too much. There is no reason to play anything else. Choosing spiritualist you are accepting a 10% reduction on literally everything except food which is pretty useless, and there are zero benefits.

It's a nearly impossible occurance. Getting robots is easy for spiritualists, getting psi-tech is like 1/1000 for materialists. The balance is skewed in the opposite direction, spiritualists get far more benefits and special treatment than any other ethos. I feel like spiritualist was the only ethos in a remotely "done" state, then you have ones like the xenos which have essentially nothing. Hopefully they intend to flesh out every option with free updates, and don't throw that behind DLC.

Zubenelgenubi님이 먼저 게시:

I don't even know what to say. My respect for the devs just plummeted if they can't remain objective and instead try to justify everything with rhetoric.

If scientists prove psionics are real, they have proven the beliefs of the spiritulists using their own science. It's as simple as that.

There's nothing inherently spiritual about psionics. It's a sci-fi thing not a fantasy thing. I think the idea is spiritualists are naturally more open minded so learn it easily, while materialists think they understand more than they do and wont delve into that area of science without hard proof it's real.

[Zubenelgenubi]

Astasia님이 먼저 게시:

spiritualists get far more benefits and special treatment than any other ethos.

That's ridiculous.

Spiritualist gets a food bonus. And food is the most meaningless of all resources.

Materialists get bonuses to science, engineering, and society. The very best things to get boosts to.

Astasia님이 먼저 게시:

There's nothing inherently spiritual about psionics

Except for, you know, all the spiritualities discussing it and training people to use it since the dawn of man. And the materialists saying they're living in a fantasy world all the while.

[Astasia]

Zubenelgenubi님이 먼저 게시:

That's ridiculous.

Spiritualist gets a food bonus. And food is the most meaningless of all resources.

Materialists get bonuses to science, engineering, and society. The very best things to get boosts to.

Except for, you know, all the spiritualities discussing it and training people to use it since the dawn of man. And the materialists saying they're living in a fantasy world all the while.

It's more than just the direct etho's benefits. It's all the special events they get, and the options they get for standard events. There are several unique benefits spiritualists get that other ethos don't.

Psionics is a fairly new idea, people weren't claiming to be psychic/telepathic/telekinetic until fairly recently. There's nothing divine or religious about them, those that are religious would instead claim they have some sort of divine power or gift from a god. There's nothing mysteroius or spiritual about brain waves interacting with other people/the world, it's just believed to be impossible.

[Zubenelgenubi]

Astasia님이 먼저 게시:

Psionics is a fairly new idea, people weren't claiming to be psychic/telepathic/telekinetic until fairly recently. There's nothing divine or religious about them, those that are religious would instead claim they have some sort of divine power or gift from a god. There's nothing mysteroius or spiritual about brain waves interacting with other people/the world, it's just believed to be impossible.

It's not a new idea at all. The real world studies into it use practicioners of ancient techniques. Before brain waves could be measured by modern scientists they were known of by spiritualists.

Your post highlights another misconception that's made too often, Spirituality doesn't mean Religion and God and the baby Jesus. There are plenty of Atheist Spiritualities.

Here's some QiGong (over 4000 years old) you might find interesting. But lets not let the discussion be derailed by it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GzR03VyiFss

[Vertoss]

kesat님이 먼저 게시:

Just like most already said, a psionics and maniacal traits will unlock those techs too. In fact: maniacal (weight factor 4-5) is actually more important than ethos or psionic expertise (weight factor 2 and 3).


Unfortunately Astasia is correct for the very first psi tech (which is the requirement for any other psi tech): You can't get psionic theory without psionic expertise as a (fanatic) materialist empire due to a weight modifier of 0.

Interesting. I play as materialist and my surveying scientist just got psionic trait as he lvl up to lvl 3. Is that bug?

[Rallehop]

Playing my all fanatical militarist i got the option for Psionic warriors at like the 4th or 5th social tech. Don't know what everyone else is on about

[eidoru]

I got psionic theory when I was fanatic materialist and xenophile

[Malecord]

Astasia님이 먼저 게시:

I think the idea is spiritualists are naturally more open minded

Spiritualists are naturally what?!? :S

Man... if god had to descend on the galaxy and manifest itself to the Stellaris empires, materialists would be the first to acknowledge it simply because it's there and it can be measured. Even its ability to defy known science and logic would be measurable. Then, of course, they would start to reverse engineer its powers immediately after that's what materialists do.

Spiritualists an the other hand would never accept it. Simpy because the true god would be necessarily be different than the idea of god they made up for themselves. Infact Stellaris is plenty of Gods and pretty much each empire has its own depending on what they have on their agenda.


I understand Stellaris limitations when it comes to the necessity of having game mechanics that force you to make a choice. So ok: psi powers are not supposed to exists for "regular science". So materialists don't waste resources to research them in the first place. But once they find out psi powers actually exist (because they ally/go to war with an empire that have them for instance) it just goes against the materialistic mindset to not research and master them too.

[Zubenelgenubi]

Malecord님이 먼저 게시:

Man... if god

Again with the god stuff. This isn't a thread about Roman Christianity. Neo-Atheists are the only one bringing god up.

[Malecord]

Vertoss님이 먼저 게시:

Interesting. I play as materialist and my surveying scientist just got psionic trait as he lvl up to lvl 3. Is that bug?

Materialists cannot hire psionic scientists. Their scientists however can gain the trait by leveling up.

Why? Because of the reasons in my previous post: materialists don't research something they don't think is possible. But once they see it's possible, they do. Unfortunately in this version of the game the only way for materialists to realize psionics are possible is by having a scientist uncover its own latent powers, regardless of what happens in the rest of the known galaxy.

And yeah... the whole discussion of this thread is about sharing ways to make scientist get that trait.

So: do you remember how you scientist gained the trait? This would help.

[Malecord]

Zubenelgenubi님이 먼저 게시:

Malecord님이 먼저 게시:

Man... if god

Again with the god stuff. This isn't a thread about Roman Christianity. Neo-Atheists are the only one bringing god up.

Fanatic spiritualist?

[Zubenelgenubi]

Malecord님이 먼저 게시:

a scientist uncover its own latent powers

Then he would no longer be a materialist. The revelation might even cause him to become a revolutionary or something.

Malecord님이 먼저 게시:

Fanatic spiritualist?

Not quite as fanatic as i used to be.