Rogue Servitors broken with Le Guin?

[Coplann]

A couple people already mentioned that Machine Empires are basically dead now because they cannot benefit from trade value (which is the meta now), but Rogue Servitors seem to be completely broken. The biopops basically produce 2 Unity now and the improved bio-sanctuary building from the tradition tree was removed (dunno if there is an upgrade via research possible later on), but 2 Unity for the upkeep (large amount of food and consumer good) is pretty bad in comparison to normal unity buildings, merchant guilds or temples.

Well Rogue Servitors were always a net loss in efficiency until you could perma-run all unity edicts. BUT what happened to their production and influence bonus? I compared the RS bots to a normal ME as well as Driven Assimilators, same production/upkeep etc... no additional influence gain either...

Basically the Servitor Morale is gone from the game and Id like to know if this is a bug or intended by the devs. Anyone know?

[Astasia]

Like not even close. Rogue Servitors get an absolutely ludicrous amount of unity now, it's the only machine empire type currently worth playing as machine empires are in a pretty bad place overall.

IIRC it's 2 unity per bio-trophy job, you get 10 jobs from the base building, and they do indeed get an upgraded one through tech that's +20 housing and +20 bio trophy jobs. So that's like 40 unity per building slot, without any unity bonuses. You can gene mod them for even more unity and smaller housing, take the unity machine empire civic, and they just fly through the tradition trees.

They can use the biotrophy housing buildings on other planets as housing for robots as well, so they can get very high populations to work a lot of jobs. The faction was also buffed a lot and no longer needs the bio-trophies everywhere, so you can contain them to just one planet as a unity powerhouse and do normal robot things on every other planet without any penalties.

[Coplann]

Fair point, but, the use of unity is limited. What do you do with all the unity when you could run all unity ambitions 24/7 before already? And those bio pops consume a lot of resources. Pre 2.2 I could end up with machine worlds with resource-per-tile yields that would make a fallen empire look like infants thanks to the servitor morale bonus (40%).

[von Horsten]

Yes. Stupid amounts of unity but you're barely scraping by when it comes to basic resources - namely Energy and Minerals. You can make do with a steamlined race but even then you fall behind even on Comodore.
Remember that you need Minerals to construct buildings and mining/science stations, you need it to turn into Alloys AND your population growth eats away a large chunk of it as well.
While the entire game is rigged to have increased income from Trade a machine empire not only does not receive those extra trade credits but also needs an increased amount of energy credits for your population.
Not to mention the ridiculously slow population growth.

[Astasia]

Originally posted by Coplann:

Fair point, but, the use of unity is limited. What do you do with all the unity when you could run all unity ambitions 24/7 before already? And those bio pops consume a lot of resources. Pre 2.2 I could end up with machine worlds with resource-per-tile yields that would make a fallen empire look like infants thanks to the servitor morale bonus (40%).

The bio trophies really don't consume that much in terms of resources, and the resource bonus rogue servitors used to have was just to make up for the lost tiles. You don't need to waste slots on bio trophies anymore, you can just keep a few on your home planet, still get an insane amount of unity, and then play like a normal machine empire but with a powerful bonus housing system on all your other planets. It's not what to do with unity, it's the fact they can get all the bonuses so quickly. You can have 4 ascension perks before most other empires can get their second, that's a strong bonus.

Originally posted by Nikky:

Yes. Stupid amounts of unity but you're barely scraping by when it comes to basic resources - namely Energy and Minerals. You can make do with a steamlined race but even then you fall behind even on Comodore.
Remember that you need Minerals to construct buildings and mining/science stations, you need it to turn into Alloys AND your population growth eats away a large chunk of it as well.
While the entire game is rigged to have increased income from Trade a machine empire not only does not receive those extra trade credits but also needs an increased amount of energy credits for your population.
Not to mention the ridiculously slow population growth.

Those are mostly Machine Emprie issues in general, and yes ME's are in a bad spot right now, but rogue servitors are somewhat playable, at least more so than the other civics, because they can get all the traditions and ascension perks they need to be viable fairly quickly. Machine worlds and the robomodding buffs solve most of the issues machine empires have in the early game.

Also your comment about population growth is confusing, machine empires have the highest population growth out of all the empire types. Upgrade their capitol and it boosts their pop growth to like 6 base, flat, which is then multiplied by all the other bonuses and you can easily hit 10+ growth per month. Even hive minds struggle to hit 7-8 because they are multiplying the base 3 growth, they need +200% just to get close.

[von Horsten]

Just tried out the 2.2.2 Beta with Driven Assimilators - 20 years in they don't show any of the shortcomings I have noticed with Rogue Servitors (probably need to check these as well).

[Athmet]

Originally posted by Nikky:

Just tried out the 2.2.2 Beta with Driven Assimilators - 20 years in they don't show any of the shortcomings I have noticed with Rogue Servitors (probably need to check these as well).

Indeed, I believe they fixed some of the robot empire issue in the beta branch