Why give anyone a choice if the choice is forced?

[viirinsoftworks]

Okay, so I tried to give The Prince to a religious cult empire next door to my machine empire, but the only choices I had were:

Insult the book and then destroy it
Insult all books and destroy it

I wanted to give them it. Do I need a mod in order to fix this game to that degree?

[Ertwin]

This boils down to; an atheist finds a bible. His only choice is to destroy it because it is meaningless to him.

That is ridiculous, why can he not give the bible to someone who values it.

The destruction only option makes materialists exceedingly petty.

[Mistfox]

Originally posted by Ertwin:

This boils down to; an atheist finds a bible. His only choice is to destroy it because it is meaningless to him.

That is ridiculous, why can he not give the bible to someone who values it.

The destruction only option makes materialists exceedingly petty.

Does it even matter? Think it through, a spiritualist and a materialist empire are already sworn enemies to each other, the little relationship bonus you get isn't going to stop them from hating you and you're already enemies with each other, so all this does is drive home the fact that the 2 ethics are blood enemies.

[viirinsoftworks]

I'm friends with people that have religious beliefs extremely different from what I believe, and I'll go out of my way to answer their questions with what I think would be a valid in-canon response that deepens their own faith, while in my head I'm just laughing at them in the most derogatory and condescending manner possible. Why support them at all? It helps me to manipulate them later when their skills, resources, or connections might be of value to me.

Why can't my empire do the same?

[Fuinril]

Originally posted by TheFarReach:

Well, Wiz did say that Space Unicorns would be coming in a future patch.

And people wonder why he was discharged of Stellaris xD

Originally posted by viirinsoftworks:

I'm friends with people that have religious beliefs extremely different from what I believe, and I'll go out of my way to answer their questions with what I think would be a valid in-canon response that deepens their own faith, while in my head I'm just laughing at them in the most derogatory and condescending manner possible. Why support them at all? It helps me to manipulate them later when their skills, resources, or connections might be of value to me.

Why can't my empire do the same?

You are friend, at individual level yes. Through history however 2 empires with different point of view rarely were friend, I should say it would be pretty strange if that was the case in this game.

Usually you can't really befriend an empire with opposed ethics (materialist/spiritualis, xenophile/xenophob, etc...) and get a relation malus.

From a RP perspective your popuplation would not be happy about giving back the book as they despise (generally speaking, could be different at individual level, hence the factions) those spiritualist idiots

[Visi]

Originally posted by Mistfox:

Originally posted by Ertwin:

This boils down to; an atheist finds a bible. His only choice is to destroy it because it is meaningless to him.

That is ridiculous, why can he not give the bible to someone who values it.

The destruction only option makes materialists exceedingly petty.

Does it even matter? Think it through, a spiritualist and a materialist empire are already sworn enemies to each other, the little relationship bonus you get isn't going to stop them from hating you and you're already enemies with each other, so all this does is drive home the fact that the 2 ethics are blood enemies.

Ertwin: *states unassailable point*
Mistfox: "B-b-b-but does it even matter? You probably won't get along anyway so it's totally okay for this to be completely nonsensical..."

Never change, comrade, never change. *tips fedora*

[viirinsoftworks]

Gestalt consciousness. There are no 'people', there is only Xuul.
I've peaceably assimilated xenophobes and spiritualists from vassals and no one complained, either during or especially after.

[Tomibouzu]

Originally posted by Evil_Lord_Proteus:

Originally posted by Mistfox:

You just don't get it so stop insulting others for your inability.
It's not "MACHINE" that is locking out the choice, it is "MATERIALIST", even if you were biological.
Any other empire would have had the full range of choices.

You are the one who insulted me though. :s

And again, it's you who doesn't understand what is happening, not I. The topic is about forced choice. Telling us that the developers made it so that you don't have a choice doesn't make it OK.

You do realize all events in the game are like this. Some empire Ethics disable some choices and others offer their own choices. It also makes a lot of logical sense. If someone handed you a bible and told you it was important would you consider it important or would you look at it like it's a bible?

[BanDHMO]

Originally posted by Ertwin:

This boils down to; an atheist finds a bible. His only choice is to destroy it because it is meaningless to him.

That is ridiculous, why can he not give the bible to someone who values it.

The destruction only option makes materialists exceedingly petty.

Exageration for dramatic effect is the only reason, really. If the game had all AI acting rationally, you'd have a galaxy-wide Federation by 2250 and peacefully develop the rest of the game, while ganging up on any threat that pops up. Instead, ethics are portrayed as pretty fanatical, even at one step, and everybody is *forced* to spend the points. This creates conflict with many, if not most, of your neighbours, which makes for a dramatic game.

[viirinsoftworks]

Well said, Ban.
But yeah, it would be nice if ALL options were given but penalties (nationwide unhappiness) if you chose something radically different from what is thematic.

[viirinsoftworks]

I think I'll just play my first 'non ironman' game so I can go back a step in choice making if the choice is a stupid one.

[Fuinril]

Originally posted by viirinsoftworks:

Gestalt consciousness. There are no 'people', there is only Xuul.
I've peaceably assimilated xenophobes and spiritualists from vassals and no one complained, either during or especially after.

So as Xuul you are a not the representation of the will of the entire population composing your empire but the will of the empire. And such, ethics you choose are supposed to be even more a representation as how you act. So no befriend of some idiot spiritualist.

As for the assimilation you convert the pop you captured as one of you, no matter what they were or think before, it does not matter anymore.

[Ertwin]

I try to befriend everyone regardless of ethos.

While other events have different choices based on ethics, this one is extremely arbitrary, and forces materialists/machines to act like petulant children.

[Tomibouzu]

Originally posted by Ertwin:

I try to befriend everyone regardless of ethos.

While other events have different choices based on ethics, this one is extremely arbitrary, and forces materialists/machines to act like petulant children.

strange how a game can make someone like yourelf have to act like yourself.

[マスキュリン]

You must have made your choice beforehand. You get up to 3 Options after the Special Project.

1. You keep the Book
2. You contact them
3. The book sucks, contact them

The 3rd Option shows for all empires (even robots) if Opinion is 10 or lower. And is the insult one which you must have chosen.

[Azor]

Originally posted by Mistfox:

It's not "MACHINE" that is locking out the choice, it is "MATERIALIST", even if you were biological.
Any other empire would have had the full range of choices.

Yesterday I got the same event, "The Prince", as a Fanatic Materalist empire and three options.
1. "Let us divine its secrets - they need not know."
2. "We will return it to its proper owners. Hail them."
3. "Their prose is pedestrian, their ideas weak. Hail them."

It's not Materialist ethos that locks out the second choice, it is xenophobe.

After choosing either the second or the third option, the book owner will open contact.

I found no indication that machine empires locks out the second choice, and the event was left unchanged by 2.2. ---