Problem with relative power of subjects

[Froosti]

I have one vassal with a single planet and ship, but I'm getting -100 from relative power of subjects. Aside from just letting them revolt, what can I even do here?

[DarkExcalibur42]

A favorable trade deal can give you +100. Try giving them a research agreement for 30 years, or some terraforming gases/liquids.

Also:
"The "Relative power of subjects" value takes into account the TOTAL power of all your vassals, not individually per subject. So even if all your vassals are "Pathetic", if you have enough of them this value can spike quite dramatically... I only wish I'd figured this out before getting so many new vassals under me, because now they're all disloyal :/ It makes sense though, when you think about it. If your ruled nations all figured out that they collectively outnumber you, they would be more likely to revolt and try to gain independence."
http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/index.php?threads/relative-power-of-subjects-stellaris.927474/#post-21169221

Do you have any protectorates? Otherwise that sounds weird or buggy.

I advance pre-FTL civs that are inside my borders so they can't expand. This keeps them from ever getting too powerful. Eventually I'm able to vassalize and integrate them, but it's not really a priority. If you take on a particularly strong protectorate/vassal work towards integrating them quickly.

[Froosti]

I'm pretty early in the game, so I just have my own empire and this one vassal. They currently only have a single corvette while I have 9 more advanced corvettes and 3 destroyers, so I'm thinking that it's just bugged...

[DarkExcalibur42]

Someone said it was calculated strictly by planet count, but I know that's not right because my protectorates flipped out after my 70k fleet got wasted by the Unbidden. Immediately after they revoked migration treaties and went disloyal until i'd rebuilt a fleet.

Not sure what happened here, sorry to say. You do get a very nice relations buff for releasing them. So have you considered letting them go and offering an alliance instead?

[DarkExcalibur42]

Research & Migration treaties will give you nice trust buffs, useful for later negotiations.

[Froosti]

Yeah, that's prolly my best bet, thanks. Hopefully their zenophobia won't ♥♥♥♥ that up, I'd rather not have to commit genocide on my neighbors again.

[DarkExcalibur42]

Originally posted by Froosti:

Yeah, that's prolly my best bet, thanks. Hopefully their zenophobia won't ♥♥♥♥ that up, I'd rather not have to commit genocide on my neighbors again.

lol, just "liberate" them a few times till they're more ethically tolerable.

[oltammefru]

Originally posted by DarkExcalibur42:

Someone said it was calculated strictly by planet count, but I know that's not right because my protectorates flipped out after my 70k fleet got wasted by the Unbidden. Immediately after they revoked migration treaties and went disloyal until i'd rebuilt a fleet.

Not sure what happened here, sorry to say. You do get a very nice relations buff for releasing them. So have you considered letting them go and offering an alliance instead?

If you aren't playing ironman, you can use the debugtooltip console command to see the relative power between your vassal and you. The debug tooltip seems to suggest that relative power is mainly calculated by fleet power, fleet cap and tech level, but the income of energy/minerals/research also affect it.

[DarkExcalibur42]

^ Thanks much. Fleet strength seems to be the largest determinant here from my experience.

[annaliseh]

Originally posted by DarkExcalibur42:

.....t after my 70k fleet got wasted by the Unbidden.

You can't be serious!!! my 47K fleet decimated the unbidden fleets 3 x42K Fleets all at the same time while my fleet took zero damage.

[DarkExcalibur42]

Originally posted by annaliseh:

Originally posted by DarkExcalibur42:

.....t after my 70k fleet got wasted by the Unbidden.

You can't be serious!!! my 47K fleet decimated the unbidden fleets 3 x42K Fleets all at the same time while my fleet took zero damage.

Firstly, pics or it didn't happen.
Second, I rushed their portal and got surrounded on all sides by 4 fleets of Unbidden and so was unable to pick them off at range. And I had a Steadfast admiral.

In the rematch, my 42k fleet wiped out 2 of theirs with little damage to itself.

[B1G N008]

ok iv been playing with this, and i need feedback.

i have 9 vassals, the 2 most powerfull appear to have fleet power up to around 20k, i got a 'suddenly -5k' relative power modifier, which after a repeatable weapon tech research finished, dropped to -142... i now have multiple fleets with the following FP;

2.1m
1.9m
891k
1m
1.1m
502k
138k
495k
433k
429k
433k
524k
86k
1.3m
728k
194k
1.3m

and its still bloody negative at -26.

im convinced its broken. it does not appear to conform to any consistent rule, and i think iv taken enough piss with my fleet power. tell me im wrong.

EDIT; i just discarded that last 1.3m fleet, its now +16.

what the actual ♥♥♥♥?

[MongooseCalledFred]

Originally posted by B1G N008:

ok iv been playing with this, and i need feedback.

i have 9 vassals, the 2 most powerfull appear to have fleet power up to around 20k, i got a 'suddenly -5k' relative power modifier, which after a repeatable weapon tech research finished, dropped to -142... i now have multiple fleets with the following FP;

2.1m
1.9m
891k
1m
1.1m
502k
138k
495k
433k
429k
433k
524k
86k
1.3m
728k
194k
1.3m

and its still bloody negative at -26.

im convinced its broken. it does not appear to conform to any consistent rule, and i think iv taken enough piss with my fleet power. tell me im wrong.

EDIT; i just discarded that last 1.3m fleet, its now +16.

what the actual ♥♥♥♥?

It looks like your fleet power was so big that the total overflowed into negative numbers. It's possible to get that to happen with repeatable techs, too. (Overflow occurs because the variable the game uses can only handle numbers in a certain range. Exceed the range, and it wraps around to the negative side.)

[DarkExcalibur42]

Originally posted by MongooseCalledFred:

Exceed the range, and it wraps around to the negative side.)

aka the Nuclear Ghandi problem.

[B1G N008]

i considered the negative loop, but its not consistent enough for that. at least, i don't think so, i could be underestermaitng it.

further playing with it (while sober) revealed that it will slowly go up with ur fleet power, but there seems to be a random chance for a random buff.

sometimes it will shoot negative by a few hundred, or a few thousand. sometimes it will shoot posotive.

i was useing the finish research command to play with tech upgrades and their effect on it, because just adding more ships is basically a coin flip, at on point it went from ~-200 to over +32k, then just as suddenly dropped to -900.

and fleets toppiong 2.2mill and looping negative, doesn't seem to directly affect it. in that it does apper to have an effect, just not a consistent one.