Arent Fallen Empires Supposed to be Powerful?

[POOTISMAN]

I played a few games and the Fallen Empires have never been a serious threat. Yes, they have a few 200 - 300k fleets, which are unmatched in early game, but by the time they start their holy war in late game, the league of non aligned nations has serveral million fleet power and can just steam roll them.

Heres what the Fallen Empire's home system looked like shorty after the war in heaven started:
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2818335040
My federation isnt even part of the league, we could add another 1.5 mill fleet power if necessary.

[Mashi]

That's the point. They are powerful in their weakened state, even more powerful if they wake up and start building and seizing territory again. But, if there are more people in the unaligned powers, or they're late waking up. Their power ends up being for naught.

[POOTISMAN]

Originally posted by Mashi:

But, if there are more people in the unaligned powers,

AI Empires always join the league of unaligned powers, so FEs have pretty much no chance of winning.

A strengh slider for FEs like we have for endgame crisis would be great.

[Garatgh Deloi]

Originally posted by Barnacle Food:

AI Empires always join the league of unaligned powers

No they don't. Had a game a while ago where the majority of the AI empires joined the two awakened empires leaving me and a few other empires in the unaligned powers (we got crushed since both sides focused on us for whatever reason).

[rafael.ramus]

Originally posted by Garatgh Deloi:

Originally posted by Barnacle Food:

AI Empires always join the league of unaligned powers

No they don't. Had a game a while ago where the majority of the AI empires joined the two awakened empires leaving me and a few other empires in the unaligned powers (we got crushed since both sides focused on us for whatever reason).

Yep, they do - at least in Admiral and Grand Admiral. If they don't, then the AI hates me for some reason and decided to piss me off - because I hate how the outcome of War in Heaven is this big giant Federation that undo every bit of diplomacy between big empires up to then. I hate this thing, hate it.

[ScreamCon]

You don't want to end up being the one 'stuck in the middle' as the saying goes.
1 and 2 fallen empires is easy but 3 or more without being on par... uh oh.

[Nunn]

I dont think ive had a single player game where the fallen empires did anything worth while.
One of them awoke in my current game but is pretty much the weakest non-vassal nation in the game.

[Mennan]

Originally posted by rafael.ramus:

Originally posted by Garatgh Deloi:

No they don't. Had a game a while ago where the majority of the AI empires joined the two awakened empires leaving me and a few other empires in the unaligned powers (we got crushed since both sides focused on us for whatever reason).

Yep, they do - at least in Admiral and Grand Admiral. If they don't, then the AI hates me for some reason and decided to piss me off - because I hate how the outcome of War in Heaven is this big giant Federation that undo every bit of diplomacy between big empires up to then. I hate this thing, hate it.

They have a specific set of rules scripted whether or not they join the FE's in the war. However in a Admiral/GA game they will most certainly join the league as the requirements are not hard.

Here the rules on whether or not Ai joins the FE's or remain neutral and later join the League according to the Wikia.
1) AI empires with less than 20k fleet power and no federation will side with an Awakened Empire based on their ethics.

2) AI empires with more than 20k fleet power or that are part of a federation with a human player will stay neutral.

3) AI empires with less than 20k fleet power that are part of an AI federation will pick at random.

IF they choose to stay neutral when the League gets formed they will be offered a choice to join the League. Which all but Genocidal empires accept.

[Shinobi273]

Does being emperor affect war in heaven? What if I have the galaxy in a single federation? And I'm the custodian?

[mss73055]

As a custodian you cannot side with any empire. You have to get your fleet right, because being a custard ends up with being conquered.

The custodian may have a better position, because the custodian can have both a federation fleet and the custodian fleet. Each being a 2M doomstack on their own.

As the custodian you can lol around. As the emperor your actions effect your authority.

[Shinobi273]

So war in heaven should be possible in a galaxy in which no empire could choose either side? I mean they literally cannot leave the galactic empire or the hegemony to join either FE. The galaxy is just going to unite to defeat them.

Is there a check for the war in heaven to prevent it if no one will choose?

[mss73055]

War in heavens happens between 2 awakened empires.
Other empires merely end up at some side of the table: against either, or against both.

[Slayer]

FEs are in need of a rework, they've been rendered them from a "Submit or die" threat to a glorified lootbox for fancy technologies.
I've heard stories from old-timers about FEs being this galactic menace,but no longer sadly.

[Shinobi273]

Originally posted by Slayer:

FEs are in need of a rework, they've been rendered them from a "Submit or die" threat to a glorified lootbox for fancy technologies.
I've heard stories from old-timers about FEs being this galactic menace,but no longer sadly.

They are easy compared to crisis. Anyone wanting a challenge would just move the end game timer left and the crisis to x25.

I'm sure if you were not as good at the game and set the end game time short and disabled crisis, they could provide a challenge.

If you play beyond the end game, crisis also drop a relic when the FE don't so they are less rewarding too.

[SaD-82]

I look at them like this:
They are called fallen empires because they are fallen. They are not called bad a$$ empires.
Looking at actual human history: All fallen empires went extinct easily after they became fallen. Some stuck around for some hundred years but they were rendered more or less useless and were there just for fashion reasons.
They work on my end very well with this in mind.

[Drake]

FE are powerful, they suck because stellaris AI is primitive.
let's start with the best FE starter, 3 fleets (120K power each fleet) 1 titan (30K) 1 colossus and around 2.5-3K of troops.
When the FE awaken, he gain 3 additionnal fleets and full resources (135K of everything) BUT for idk reasons they don't develop planets nor build battlecruiser,titan and colossus... they just spam escort like ♥♥♥♥♥♥.
not being able to do "normal" diplomacy and regular empires spamming subjugation make things for FE even harder.