Subjugation not worth it anymore?

[The Furred Cheese]

So not sure if it changed since I last played a bit over a week ago, but is it still not worth it to force subjugate other empires if you don't have the Overlord DLC? In the last game I played, I had declared war on two empires and conquered them to become vassals, yet they just denied taxes I tried imposing on them, or telling them not to expand. What's the point of subjugating empires by force if they can just go "Lolno we don't want to"??

[Rhakin]

I've noticed that, even if they agree to pay you. If their loyalty gets too low they just make secret loyalties with someone else. i think the system needs to be reworked. everyone you force into being your subject should automatically pay you in atleast energy credits.

[Rhapsody]

Set your initial subjugation terms to Oppressive or Balanced. So long as your power is superior compared to your subjects, they are likely to fall in line even if disloyal.

AFAIK it will also cost the subject influence to reject terms when you suggest changed terms of contract.

[Garatgh Deloi]

Originally posted by rjones78:

I've noticed that, even if they agree to pay you. If their loyalty gets too low they just make secret loyalties with someone else. i think the system needs to be reworked. everyone you force into being your subject should automatically pay you in atleast energy credits.

If you want them to give you stuff then make them a tributary rather then a vassal, its kinda the whole point of that subject type.

[CaptainSpacetime]

yeah you vassalized them with the terms "be my vassal and give me nothing".

use tributary if you want tribute right off the bat

or just improve relations with the vassal until you can renegotiate the contract to get more out of them.

[orthostatic]

If you subjugate oppressively (policies, F6) then it halts their expansion for five years, which can be useful if they're your first neighbor regardless of whether or not you intend to fully subjugate or splinter them using status quo.

Most annoying thing I find about subjugation is that none of the empires know how to prevent rebellions, so it's a constant game of whack-a-mole that gets so bloody tedious.

[The Furred Cheese]

Originally posted by Rhapsody:

Set your initial subjugation terms to Oppressive or Balanced. So long as your power is superior compared to your subjects, they are likely to fall in line even if disloyal.

AFAIK it will also cost the subject influence to reject terms when you suggest changed terms of contract.

OK, that makes more sense, when I first tried to subjugate them, it wasn't letting me change it from protectorate to tributary so I'll try a few other things

[Shinobi273]

Originally posted by orthostatic:

Most annoying thing I find about subjugation is that none of the empires know how to prevent rebellions, so it's a constant game of whack-a-mole that gets so bloody tedious.

I am getting this problem too. Are you using the garrison holding with armies? The occupation of the populace seem to be making pops so unhappy it affects stability. It could also be the criminal megacorp causing tons of crime jobs in my game. The empires were also small (4-6 worlds) so I think they were having trouble balancing their subjugation terms.

[Garatgh Deloi]

Originally posted by Shinobi273:

...

Yea if you are using the garrison buildings and put armies at that world (without armies it has no happiness penalty) make sure its a stable world to begin with. The happiness penalty can indeed lower the stability to the point of causing a rebellion.

[mss73055]

I had in mind to guide a early space age civ into being a proper empire.
Even with ultra phile peaceful traits the whole thing came apart. At the top of their power they held 6 planets. From there is was one rebellion after the other, even their main world rebelled.

I gave them every freedom and paid them 10% on top of this. Loyalty 100/100.
Still BUME rebels here, rebels everywhere.

Not complaining, as peaceful me was able to gobble up the rebels. Now their last stupid tomb world is the anchor member of my federation :)