hyperspace lanes and chokepoints are great dont know why some people are complaining

[GhostByte]

I think it adds more stategy to the game having chokepoints and fotresses. Honestly i think some people complain about change for changes sake even if it makes the game better. just like people who complained about a few new lines in starwars blue ray like darth vader saying noooooooooo in return of the jedi like that really changes everything about the film. anyway it just gos to show some people hate new things just beacuse its new

[Jagothegamer]

It's because that when they added the new system, they also removed the two other methods of travel(Warp and wormholes, which I am still a little salty about), though to a degree I do agree, the new system is pretty great, despite the loss of the methods of travel. Also some people argue it doesn't make any sense to have choke points in space, and honestly I think the only reason they did add choke points was because it's similar to how their other strategy games work, which is fine, but that's my assessment of the situation.

[Metadragon]

Originally posted by Jagothegamer:

Also some people argue it doesn't make any sense to have choke points in space,

Well thats stupid. If you have hyperlanes that are only accessible in certain areas and only go to one other system then you must traverse real space to get to the next one. That makes perfect sense.

The whole Warp thing is the one people are mad about because they cant alpha strike into a heavily used area and cut off resources. Feel free to travel the couple thousand year it takes to go between stars.

When we really break down the no chokepoints part why not suffciently advance enough to not require star light to function and live between stars? See? You can break down anything enough to ♥♥♥♥♥ about it.

In fact I think running into live ships popping into systems with habitable planets would and could be an interesting series of interesting events beyond the small amount of fluff about Yuht.

[jkizer]

The problem is they are trying to make static fortifications relevent. There was no reason to build statice defenses anywhere but at your settled systems. example why would I attack a system that has atol of defences but that the only thing it contained? With warp and wormhole you were abple to be mobile striking at worthwile targets. TO make an analogy it like fighting a war where at one time you had airpower with the ablity to strike and land troops but now they have taken it away because they want you fight for every worthless srap of land an make building the space equivalent of the maginot line.

[Albedo]

what chokepoints? At default settings (1x hyperlane) every star is connected to 3 other stars, it is virtually impossible to choke off a section of space without using 6-8 starbases.

On the other hand if you reduce hyperlane density to .75x, then there are plenty of oportunities for chokepoints, but the universe becomes sort of linear and extremely annoying. I had a game with .75x density starting at the 4 o'clock position and i was invading civs at the 8 o'clock and colonizing 12 o'clock position because it was impossible to invade any of my 4 neighbors due to bosses blocking off entire sections. The only way to invade my neighbor directly above me was to warp my fleet to the 12 o'clock position and travel 3-4 years to his backdoor.

Dont get me wrong, i like the starbase system both for expansion and for utility/chokepoint potential, but there is so much wrong with the update. I like carefully thinking about where to expand rather than the whole zerg rush to colonize as many planets/systems as possible. That said.....

Wars have had all strategy removed and is now just a zerg rush and fleets take hardly any losses anymore. They are using the Europa 4 model but without key components from that game that made it work (namely manpower and the ability to reduce war exhaustion). Wars went from an exciting back and forth action that could last decades to something that is over with in a mere few years. The most excitement you will get is chasing a small enemy fleet across your entire territory. In 1.9 i would actually rarely declare war but would have war constantly declared on me, causing me to scramble for allies in the early game even at default aggression. It got to the point where the first 50 years was nerve wracking. 2.0? Nobody has ever declared war on me, even with aggression set to high.

It takes for-literal-ever to travel anywhere

The claim system is absurd as it cost too many valuable resources. EU4 had a similiar claim system, but it only cost time rather than valuable resources.

The fleet manager and auto design is encumbersome and annoying.

As someone who played hyperlane only games, 1.9 was better. Im not a die hard "remove Cheryl update" person, i would prefer they improve what they added. I could see 2.0 being better than 1.9 in the future, but as it currently stand 2.0 is simply boring, encumbersome, and annoying.

If you enjoy it, thats fine, but dont dismiss the huge portion who are unsatisfied with the change.

[HugsAndSnuggles]

Originally posted by Albedo:

what chokepoints? At default settings (1x hyperlane) every star is connected to 3 other stars, it is virtually impossible to choke off a section of space without using 6-8 starbases.

That highly depends on number of AIs. With max number on 1000 stars one to three is usually enough to fortify a border with a neighbour. Unless playing purifier, you don't need to fortify everything.

Originally posted by Albedo:

In 1.9 i would actually rarely declare war but would have war constantly declared on me, causing me to scramble for allies in the early game even at default aggression. It got to the point where the first 50 years was nerve wracking. 2.0? Nobody has ever declared war on me, even with aggression set to high.

Initial expandion slowed down more than two times. How often you got a war declared 20 years in before 2.0? Can always increase research speed - makes for a faster game.

Originally posted by Albedo:

It takes for-literal-ever to travel anywhere

Good thing from balance perspective: you either keep fleets in strategic locations or deal with consequences. Current combat balance makes this irrelevant, though.

Originally posted by Albedo:

The claim system is absurd as it cost too many valuable resources. EU4 had a similiar claim system, but it only cost time rather than valuable resources.

It also softlocks diplomats, who are in limited supply and have other uses. You can still acieve a similar one claim per year speed.

[Metadragon]

I will agree there needs to be better hyperlaning. 1.0 is just a tad too much and .75 is way to low where you end up with long stgretches of one path linear hyperlanes.

[GhostByte]

from what i read they are going to have hyperlane clusters with one hyperlink conneting to another cluster.

https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/index.php?threads/stellaris-dev-diary-111-anomaly-rework-expanded-exploration.1090092/

[Sohei]

No, it is worse. But the game is going to continue in that direction anyways.

[annaliseh]

Originally posted by ebenoit:

I think it adds more stategy to the game having chokepoints and fotresses. Honestly i think some people complain about change for changes sake even if it makes the game better. just like people who complained about a few new lines in starwars blue ray like darth vader saying noooooooooo in return of the jedi like that really changes everything about the film. anyway it just gos to show some people hate new things just beacuse its new

I agree with you, OP!

I too liked warp but since it is gone I think the game is better. Having hyperlanes density at 1.0x is too much and 0.75x is just a tad too light. If there was an intermediate setting of 0.87 or 0.88 it would be better. But it is what it is and I have had more enjoyable hours playing this game as it is now.

Too many complainers.

[Mocha]

Stellaris, a game that used to have the neat feature of all 3 but now its just every other space strat.

Thats your paradox guarentee!

[CrUsHeR]

I think the "new" system is great, i also play exclusively on Spiral Galaxy maps to further enhance the strategical dimension of the game.

Since it takes forever to get from A to B on large maps, controlling and securing Wormholes and Gateways becomes even more vital. Even moreso where you have your fleets stationed.

[Albedo]

Originally posted by HugsAndSnuggles:

That highly depends on number of AIs. With max number on 1000 stars one to three is usually enough to fortify a border with a neighbour. Unless playing purifier, you don't need to fortify everything.

Gonna disagree, adding more players simply reduce the number of chokepoints you need per player on your borders, rather than the overall number. 20 systems sharing borders with 3 AIs runs into the same problem as 20 systems shared between 20 AIs.

Initial expandion slowed down more than two times. How often you got a war declared 20 years in before 2.0? Can always increase research speed - makes for a faster game.

Depends on how many players spawn right on top of me and their government type. If its a devouring swarm/fanatical, its almost 100% guaranteed i will be in war in the first 20 years. Overall if i had to put it to numbers, i would say about 40% of my games im in a war in the first 20 years (usually against two). 85% in the first 35 years (usually against 3, sometimes up to 5). And no i was not playing as a purifier in 1.9.

I have been playing as a purifier in 2.0 however as it gets around the entire claim system. Even though the whole universe hates me, not a single nation has ever declared war on me since 2.0 hit.

Good thing from balance perspective: you either keep fleets in strategic locations or deal with consequences. Current combat balance makes this irrelevant, though.

In theory, yes. In practice its annoying. I had an all corvette defense fleet on standby while at war near the enemy borders and it still took me 3-4 years of me chasing a small enemy fleet through my territory before i finally caught up with them. Even then, they just retreated and hardly any losses and started the process all over again with my fleet on the other side of my territory now. In 1.9 such a thing would not be possible because enemy fleets get a jump penalty as they go farther and farther away.

It also softlocks diplomats, who are in limited supply and have other uses. You can still acieve a similar one claim per year speed.

Other than the first 20 or so years, that is basically all you use diplos for. It is only in the begining that diplos are a precious resource, not to mention you start off with 3 diplos (you can also easily get more). Meaning you can easily claim 3-5 systems a year in EU4. the 2.0 system is like if diplos and colonists were combined and you only get one in the whole game.

What it comes down to is that the EU claim system just does not work in stellaris.

Going back to the hyperlane topic, ive gotten more use out of military stations in 1.9 than i ever had out of defensive outposts in 2.0. And the outposts cost like 10-20x more.

[Armchair Civilian]

Still personally (broadly) in favour of the changes they've made; it definitely feels like a more comfortably-paced, complex game than before.

Yes, it's sad(ish) that the AI is now almost as bungling as i am, but hey - it gives the impression, however false, that i'm actually getting better at it :P

[Bleid]

more competitive players just like to whine and whine.

i'm a strict casual player, and it's just a game, not every game is perfect.

[TheDoctor]

yeah just like all other 4x space games. So innovative. The problem is more about HOW slow the fleets travel now.