Devouring Swarm Question.

[Shadow Raven]

So whenever I play as the Devouring Swarm, you know, the guys who devour everyone, well whenever I unlock an Ascention Perk, I can take "One Vision" which gives +50% Governing Ethics.

Now for anyone who thinks a bit will state "Wait a minute? How the hell do they spread their government if they eat everyone?"
So why is this even an option for the Devouring Swarm? Same as some Research also pop up that -spreads- ethics, on a government that doesn't have anything else than "Devour anything that walks."

The three exterminators.
Devouring Swarm.
Fanatic Purifiers.
Determined Exterminators.

All three have one thing in common. Kill everything else than them.
So their governing ethics doesn't do anything against anyone else.
Which also brings up the question why Fanatic Purifiers get Peace lovers as an ethic at times?

[mcsproot]

I'm not 100% on the mechanics, but Pops can change their ethics during the game. When you start your Pops will all have the same as governing ethics, with a Fanatical giving twice as many Pops as otherwise. Often a Fanatical will spawn a faction associated with that ethic early on.

So yes, it's possible as you expand that you'll get Pacifist pops in your Fanatical Purifier empire. Get enough of them and they'll form a faction, which will obviously be unhappy 95% of the time. Governing ethics attraction (when it works, for a long time it did nothing) increases the liklihood that Pops will take to your governing ethics. You can also 'disown' (forgot the actual term, been playing machines mostly) a faction to decrease the attraction to it.

That said, anything to do with Governing Ethics Attraction is pointless for Hive Minds and Machine Empires, as they do not have governing ethics, nor do their pops adopt ethics, and non-hive pops cannot live in their empire (exception being Bio Trophies).

But remember, Pops represent a collection of free willed people. So as your population expands, you will have more and more people who do not agree with your governing ethics.

[Shadow Raven]

Originally posted by mcsproot:

I'm not 100% on the mechanics, but Pops can change their ethics during the game. When you start your Pops will all have the same as governing ethics, with a Fanatical giving twice as many Pops as otherwise. Often a Fanatical will spawn a faction associated with that ethic early on.

So yes, it's possible as you expand that you'll get Pacifist pops in your Fanatical Purifier empire. Get enough of them and they'll form a faction, which will obviously be unhappy 95% of the time. Governing ethics attraction (when it works, for a long time it did nothing) increases the liklihood that Pops will take to your governing ethics. You can also 'disown' (forgot the actual term, been playing machines mostly) a faction to decrease the attraction to it.

That said, anything to do with Governing Ethics Attraction is pointless for Hive Minds and Machine Empires, as they do not have governing ethics, nor do their pops adopt ethics, and non-hive pops cannot live in their empire (exception being Bio Trophies).

But remember, Pops represent a collection of free willed people. So as your population expands, you will have more and more people who do not agree with your governing ethics.

For Fanatic Purifiers, it kinda is odd, that they don't -purify- the population that is trying to disrupt their way of being. And usually the Astetic one is governing ethics for other empires into yours. Which kinda is pointless for the three exterminators.

It kinda is like saying "Hey we are loving your way of eating/drilling our heads/massecering us! We will join you now on your way while still being killed off!"
For Fanatic Purifiers they can get Comfrontist, which cause their people to keep the same ethics easier. But Devouring swarm can't get that, nor can they get the conversion tech to convert people into the hive mind. Same with Determined Exterminators, they don't get servitude research, so I think it is a hindsight the developers didn't look at or think to much about.

Since normally with Hive mind, you -can- get the research to make other species join into the swarm, converting them into hive mind people. And with Mechanical, they can get the Servitor research that unlocks the food stuff for -non- robotic species under them.

[mcsproot]

They have said they're planning an espionage system for later on, and I do think cracking down on dissidents and internal espionage would be a key part of that.

For example, pops may have a public face and secret face. If you outlaw certain ethics or factions, only the most outspoken and brave/stupid would openly admit it. But while it may look on the surface that you have many obedient xenophobes following your 'destroy the xeno' mantra, behind the scenes there may be a growing resistance movement looking to overthrow your government.

That aside, as most sci-fi in space fiction I'm familar with shows, when introduced to the concept of space aliens, planetary and species culture tends to unify. We don't care that you have different skin colour, you're human, not like that space starfish thing!

So in much the same way that a Xenophile Fnork in the Fnork Purifiers empire may be looked down upon as a xeno loving hippy, he's still a Fnork and not filthy xeno scum. That's my take on it anyway.

The point of Fanatical Purifiers is they see all other sentient life in the galaxy as a mistake to be corrected. Others of their own species, even if they don't have the same philosophy, aren't anywhere near as bad as those hentai faced freaks from the Covefe system.

Though I do agree there should be a way to tell the populace that xeno loving hippies will be executed.

As for Devouring Swarms, I imagine they lack the ability to gene mod other species into the hive because they make one distinction: you are hive, or you are food. And why go through the effort of making food into hive when you can just have food? Though the entire point of the 'purifier' types is that you cannot integrate other species, and with the exception of Determined Exterminators, cannot enter diplomacy with them either.

[Shadow Raven]

Originally posted by mcsproot:

They have said they're planning an espionage system for later on, and I do think cracking down on dissidents and internal espionage would be a key part of that.

For example, pops may have a public face and secret face. If you outlaw certain ethics or factions, only the most outspoken and brave/stupid would openly admit it. But while it may look on the surface that you have many obedient xenophobes following your 'destroy the xeno' mantra, behind the scenes there may be a growing resistance movement looking to overthrow your government.

That aside, as most sci-fi in space fiction I'm familar with shows, when introduced to the concept of space aliens, planetary and species culture tends to unify. We don't care that you have different skin colour, you're human, not like that space starfish thing!

So in much the same way that a Xenophile Fnork in the Fnork Purifiers empire may be looked down upon as a xeno loving hippy, he's still a Fnork and not filthy xeno scum. That's my take on it anyway.

The point of Fanatical Purifiers is they see all other sentient life in the galaxy as a mistake to be corrected. Others of their own species, even if they don't have the same philosophy, aren't anywhere near as bad as those hentai faced freaks from the Covefe system.

Though I do agree there should be a way to tell the populace that xeno loving hippies will be executed.

As for Devouring Swarms, I imagine they lack the ability to gene mod other species into the hive because they make one distinction: you are hive, or you are food. And why go through the effort of making food into hive when you can just have food? Though the entire point of the 'purifier' types is that you cannot integrate other species, and with the exception of Determined Exterminators, cannot enter diplomacy with them either.

They should take back the old system, which allowed you to PURGE people, making so Factions would work as they are supposed too, since this system sorry to say, it is broken like hell.
I lost count on how many times my governing Ethics have suddenly been changed because 90% of my people just suddenly changed ethics in the middle of a war, making my fleets lose the power they had.

If they could make it where you don't have to spend 5k Influence to remove one single person spouting his views, like in example a 12 gauge to the face would solve that problem.
In the old system I played Fanatic Collectivist + Spiritualist (Sweet, sweet 500+ Minerals per month from slaves), whenever a person, or faction appeared that wanted my empire to change, well they ate the dust quite quickly, making it so I could keep on expanding and defend myself.
And when I took over another species, like example I lived on Desert, and took over a Artic planet, I would slowly but surely break the people's minds, into following my ethics without problems, that was my influence sink, but once that was done, I would then have two species and two planet types (Dry and Cold) to colonize.

As the system is right now, it just is a RNG system, trying to immitate politics in the real world, however, for us, it doesn't just work with one group of people, and same as if you have grown up with one view, taught to you by your parents, family, and government, you just don't stand up against the government. Even when the people are orpessed it is extremely rare for people to stand up against a government in full force. But that is only when majority of people agree. Not when a tenth of the country/planet wants it.