Stellaris

Stellaris

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ChopSuey™ Mar 19, 2022 @ 8:35am
Just a quick +1 to unity changes.
Stellaris is always a game I come back to. Absolutely love it and having started yet another new game after a long break to experience the changes in the last few patches since I played last.... I have to say.... I absolutely love the way unity has been changed as an actual resource to manage. Anyone else also thinks it just 'fits' ?
I honestly didnt think that i'd like it at all and even when i started i scoffed at not being able to hire an army of scientists with energy but after starting a slow research game in a medium galaxy... yeah... it just seems to work so far. Free's up the influence to do with that what you need with that and it just seems to work nicely.
Just wanted to drop a nod to the dev team for such a small change seemingly making a big difference.
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Showing 1-15 of 24 comments
Dr Manfatten Mar 19, 2022 @ 9:00am 
Let me know how much you like it when you get to late game.
ChopSuey™ Mar 19, 2022 @ 12:07pm 
Slap me with the negative vibe now if you can cause it still seems ok... maybe even to the point where i've had too much energy now i'm not throwing it away on leaders.
rafael.ramus Mar 19, 2022 @ 1:09pm 
Originally posted by ChopSuey™:
Stellaris is always a game I come back to. Absolutely love it and having started yet another new game after a long break to experience the changes in the last few patches since I played last.... I have to say.... I absolutely love the way unity has been changed as an actual resource to manage. Anyone else also thinks it just 'fits' ?
I honestly didnt think that i'd like it at all and even when i started i scoffed at not being able to hire an army of scientists with energy but after starting a slow research game in a medium galaxy... yeah... it just seems to work so far. Free's up the influence to do with that what you need with that and it just seems to work nicely.
Just wanted to drop a nod to the dev team for such a small change seemingly making a big difference.

I'm not a fan in comparison to 3.2.2, but i'm guessing it won't be long until some changes that I feel are weird beyond reasoning will be shown to be essential to the next DLC (Overpriced, ops, I mean, Overlord).

I really like the game and I own all DLCs, but I'm still a bit sad by the latest changes.

The one I disliked the most was Unity for Leaders, it makes no sense whatsover (unless you consider Unity a Social Credit system or something). I'm so happy mods exist, because if you look for it you can benefit from the good changes (the AI, planets, part of the Unity system, and so on) and get rid of the more senseless stuff (no way to mitigate sprawl through the good work of bureaucrats, Unity for Leaders, and so on). Also, I'm not so sure I like the scale of inflation in the game right now (since Unity is a new form of money), but...
Last edited by rafael.ramus; Mar 19, 2022 @ 1:10pm
Mazey Mar 19, 2022 @ 1:16pm 
I absolutely agree that the unity changes are great. Now you have to actually work to get the unity edicts going.
ChopSuey™ Mar 20, 2022 @ 12:53am 
Originally posted by rafael.ramus:
The one I disliked the most was Unity for Leaders, it makes no sense whatsover (unless you consider Unity a Social Credit system or something). I'm so happy mods exist, because if you look for it you can benefit from the good changes (the AI, planets, part of the Unity system, and so on) and get rid of the more senseless stuff (no way to mitigate sprawl through the good work of bureaucrats, Unity for Leaders, and so on). Also, I'm not so sure I like the scale of inflation in the game right now (since Unity is a new form of money), but...

Really? I like the leader changes and thought that it made sense. More leaders in your empire means more opinions and more people directing where your empire goes and so it costs your empire unity in order to deal with it as everyone's bickering more. You want more leaders, it'll cost you even more to run and hire which you have to balance with completing traditions.
I'd completely forgotten about making use of the bureaucrats to mitigate the sprawl though... so that will be something that i'm only now dealing with in my new game. Maybe that was what the other person was referring to :)
rafael.ramus Mar 20, 2022 @ 4:23pm 
Originally posted by ChopSuey™:
Originally posted by rafael.ramus:
The one I disliked the most was Unity for Leaders, it makes no sense whatsover (unless you consider Unity a Social Credit system or something). I'm so happy mods exist, because if you look for it you can benefit from the good changes (the AI, planets, part of the Unity system, and so on) and get rid of the more senseless stuff (no way to mitigate sprawl through the good work of bureaucrats, Unity for Leaders, and so on). Also, I'm not so sure I like the scale of inflation in the game right now (since Unity is a new form of money), but...

Really? I like the leader changes and thought that it made sense. More leaders in your empire means more opinions and more people directing where your empire goes and so it costs your empire unity in order to deal with it as everyone's bickering more. You want more leaders, it'll cost you even more to run and hire which you have to balance with completing traditions.

It is just really immersion breaking. How are they paying these dudes, social credit? Even if they get the numbers right after a few versions, it will still make no sense (unless we assume the entire galaxy is made of socialist control freaks or something).
ScreamCon Mar 20, 2022 @ 4:53pm 
Originally posted by rafael.ramus:
Originally posted by ChopSuey™:

Really? I like the leader changes and thought that it made sense. More leaders in your empire means more opinions and more people directing where your empire goes and so it costs your empire unity in order to deal with it as everyone's bickering more. You want more leaders, it'll cost you even more to run and hire which you have to balance with completing traditions.

It is just really immersion breaking. How are they paying these dudes, social credit? Even if they get the numbers right after a few versions, it will still make no sense (unless we assume the entire galaxy is made of socialist control freaks or something).
I think their trying to wane away use of currency to hard fudge yourself a bunch of leaders for competitive playing or something.

Perhaps they should have used influence instead? I would not be surprised if they come up with a new resource or currency type.
Last edited by ScreamCon; Mar 20, 2022 @ 4:55pm
pipo.p Mar 20, 2022 @ 4:59pm 
Originally posted by rafael.ramus:
It is just really immersion breaking. How are they paying these dudes, social credit? Even if they get the numbers right after a few versions, it will still make no sense (unless we assume the entire galaxy is made of socialist control freaks or something).
Come on! How have they payed organic pops all this time, consumer goods and no extra cash? Were they socialists all this long?
rafael.ramus Mar 20, 2022 @ 5:25pm 
Originally posted by pipo.p:
Originally posted by rafael.ramus:
It is just really immersion breaking. How are they paying these dudes, social credit? Even if they get the numbers right after a few versions, it will still make no sense (unless we assume the entire galaxy is made of socialist control freaks or something).
Come on! How have they payed organic pops all this time, consumer goods and no extra cash? Were they socialists all this long?

Exchange of goods is almost as old as mankind, and throughout history many currencies were linked to materials that could be linked to goods. Goods is a generic form of money, as has been Gold and Silver coins through the ages. Consumer Goods in the game is thus actually a currency that is used to represent a vast number of goods.

If we had Unity being used for nothing else I would simply assume Unity is another kind of money, but in the game Unity is used to represent societal advances. Now, all of a sudden, it behaves like money? Nah, not buying it.

Now I'm honestly repeating myself, as I have even created a thread to discuss alternatives to it. The devs have been saying for a while it was strange that a leader would receive in the beginning the equivalent or more of the entire budget of a planet. Although I agree, I don't think Unity is the best substitute.

Personally, I would like to see different leaders asking different resources to be hired. These are really, really important people, the future of entire systems are on these hands. This kind of people will have different reasons to accept such a job. So maybe one is altruistic and will be hired by Unity, while other will want Goods, other Minerals, other Influence, other Energy, other a mix of so and so, and so on.

I would actually accept a mix of Unity and Energy, say, hire by Unity but upkeep in Energy, something like that.
Originally posted by rafael.ramus:
If we had Unity being used for nothing else I would simply assume Unity is another kind of money, but in the game Unity is used to represent societal advances. Now, all of a sudden, it behaves like money? Nah, not buying it.
If you're actually looking for logical in-universe reasoning for Unity costs, rather than using it as a smokescreen to complain about balance... how much do you think one unit of Energy represents, and how much do you think these leaders are getting paid? One Energy unit is enough to run upkeep for an entire science vessel. That's the wages of every other crew member of the entire starship, which from anomaly/archaeology/random event flavour text we know includes multiple other scientists. And the head scientist is getting paid how much? Wages for them should be a rounding error on the upkeep of the support infrastructure.
Same thing for Consumer Goods, which often don't need even a single unit to cover costs for an entire Pop, a significant portion of a global population.
I guess it might make sense if you've gone for maximum Authoritarian decadent overlords where the 1% are owning planets and the rest can live in the slums, but otherwise...

The Unity costs, on the other hand, should just about cover all the political scandals when your Governor goes on the planetary talkback radio and gives their opinion on how cancer curing medication is against the will of [Natural Selection], or your Head Scientist accidentally Likes an incest porn post on their public instead of private social media account, or your General gets caught awarding contracts to shady companies that employed his incompetent son to do nothing for huge amounts of money, or when your Admiral decides to adopt one of the opposite Ethics to your empire and starts a Faction nobody likes but whose words are backed by Orbital Artillery, or [insert scandal appropriate to Ethics/Species/Gov Type here].
Mostly.
Of course, the more of them you have pulling in more directions and getting into public slap-fights with each other over which is the most submissive and breedable type of Space Goat, the worse it gets.
Last edited by Exothermically Eclectic; Mar 20, 2022 @ 6:19pm
rafael.ramus Mar 20, 2022 @ 7:19pm 
Originally posted by Amicably Atrocious:
...

You are saying what the devs have said. But still, you can't pay someone with the covering of political scandals or whatever. That's why I said that the best solution is a split / mixed payment system. It would even make it easier early game without the need to change the starting resources.
Lost Latios Mar 20, 2022 @ 7:56pm 
Originally posted by Mazey:
I absolutely agree that the unity changes are great. Now you have to actually work to get the unity edicts going.
Really? The Edict Fund is plenty enough for me to have what I want with minimal effort on my part. It feels better as a mechanic, but I don't feel any extra work involved.
Originally posted by rafael.ramus:
Originally posted by Amicably Atrocious:
...
You are saying what the devs have said. But still, you can't pay someone with the covering of political scandals or whatever.
a) You absolutely can. Just like you can pay people in goods, other services, information or anything else of value. Whether they'll be able to survive off that pay if it's their only source of income is another matter, but that leads into
b) You missed the entire first half of the post, which is that their pay is an insignificant rounding error that can be safely ignored and assumed to be more than covered by the cost of the ship/fleet/army/whatever they're in charge of. Their upkeep is not solely their pay, it's the cost to your empire of keeping them in an official position.
Whether that be in the morale hit to the public from your leaders ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ around, the food they eat, the cost to decisive leadership by having a whole bunch of different officials saying somewhat different things, the various consumer goods they might require like an armoured car or a really good computer and phone with secure networks, the extra red tape needed in managing more departments or whatever else, Paradox has decided that the only one of those costs that's significant enough to actually take entire planet-scale units of resource/currency is the cost in Unity.

Whether that's a good change from a gameplay perspective is a separate matter (personally I don't like it), but it isn't nonsensical from an immersion perspective.
Last edited by Exothermically Eclectic; Mar 21, 2022 @ 12:52am
Peerless Girl Mar 21, 2022 @ 1:47pm 
Game is better than it's ever been, and is finally getting to where it should've been at launch a few years ago. Nothing to be sad about, game is in it's best form right now.
rafael.ramus Mar 21, 2022 @ 2:57pm 
Originally posted by Amicably Atrocious:
Paradox has decided that the only one of those costs that's significant enough to actually take entire planet-scale units of resource/currency is the cost in Unity.

Whether that's a good change from a gameplay perspective is a separate matter (personally I don't like it), but it isn't nonsensical from an immersion perspective.

It isn't nonsensical to you, it definitely is to me and to other people (as I mentioned, there are older threads about it). To say one or two leaders would be interested in "the covering of political scandals" is one thing; to say ALL leaders are interested in that is pure sheer BS. As I mentioned, these characters are supposed to be greater than life heroes, Grand Admirals, Planet owners and whatnot. You even has a "Chosen One" trait and etc. To say the leader of a Megacorp is going to be paid in "the covering of political scandals" is ludicrous.

I won't go into the gameplay perspective because there are people that clearly like it and people that don't, and personally I could live with it - I don't like it, but I could stand its effect in gameplay. Now for roleplaying, Unity for Leaders is immersion breaking and honestly a deal breaker.
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Date Posted: Mar 19, 2022 @ 8:35am
Posts: 24