Borders and trade hub

[Ixtab]

So, I havent played in a long while, and am giving it another try... One thing I don't get is what the point of trade hubs are... don't you need to build a station in every system anyway?

That said, I also see that my opponents seem to have systems in their borders without stations in them... how did they accomplish it, and is there a way for me to do that?

[tempest.of.emptiness]

Every system that anyone owns has an outpost, because building an outpost in a system is how someone establishes initial control of that system.

Outposts do not collect trade value, however. If you upgrade the outpost in a system to some level of "proper" star base then it will collect trade value from its own system, but each empire has a limit on how many star bases it can support. If the number of systems you own is small then you may be able to have a star base in every one, and in that case you do not need any trade hubs.

If you cannot afford to have a star base in every system, and you have systems with trade value but no star base, then trade hubs give you a way to collect that trade value because they can collect trade value beyond their own system. In that situation but without trade hubs the trade value will go to waste.

[Buzzard]

Star Bases, upgraded from Outposts, collect trade value. The Trade Hubs and Trade upgrade (requires a Hub to construct) will expand the radius in jumps that the trade is collected. (There's also a navigation registry upgrade I can't remember the name of that boosts range) Added Gun/Missile batteries add some Piracy reduction for 1 jump each, and the Hangar goes for 2 jumps each.
Having a fleet patrol pirate-prone areas will reduce piracy values in the area. Smaller ships are better at knocking down piracy than bigger ships.
Left unchecked, piracy values will rise to equal the value of trade going through a system.

Trade value, subtracted by the Piracy value in each system, is how much you actually get delivered back home.

Once you can build your own Gateways, trade gets really profitable, as the trade routes, collection AND protection can all go through the Gates, eliminating the need for some of the long paths back to the Home/Capital system that all trade routes MUST have a path to.

[Ixtab]

okay, and what exactly is 'trade'? The game seems really fuzzy in some of these areas... is that the minerals and energy and research from systems? or is it more like the crystals and alloys?

[Aethrys]

Originally posted by Ixtab:

okay, and what exactly is 'trade'? The game seems really fuzzy in some of these areas... is that the minerals and energy and research from systems? or is it more like the crystals and alloys?

Trade value is generated by all pops, those with higher living standards generate more. Jobs like clerks and merchants also generate trade.

Think of it as a nebulous representation of goods moving around your empire, and by collecting trade value you're collecting taxes due your government.

[Ixtab]

Originally posted by Aethrys:

Originally posted by Ixtab:

okay, and what exactly is 'trade'? The game seems really fuzzy in some of these areas... is that the minerals and energy and research from systems? or is it more like the crystals and alloys?

Trade value is generated by all pops, those with higher living standards generate more. Jobs like clerks and merchants also generate trade.

Think of it as a nebulous representation of goods moving around your empire, and by collecting trade value you're collecting taxes due your government.

But how do the star bases get trade value from systems beside them then? Because you need an outpost in the other system anyway to be able to colonize and put ops there..

Also, you need to put an outpost in a system for it to be in your borders anyway, so you need to put an outpost in every single system (which seems a little odd to me)...

[HyperKnight]

https://stellaris.paradoxwikis.com/Trade

[Ryika]

Originally posted by Ixtab:

But how do the star bases get trade value from systems beside them then? Because you need an outpost in the other system anyway to be able to colonize and put ops there..

Also, you need to put an outpost in a system for it to be in your borders anyway, so you need to put an outpost in every single system (which seems a little odd to me)...

As was already said, outposts don't collect trade value.

[Aethrys]

Originally posted by Ixtab:

Originally posted by Aethrys:

Trade value is generated by all pops, those with higher living standards generate more. Jobs like clerks and merchants also generate trade.

Think of it as a nebulous representation of goods moving around your empire, and by collecting trade value you're collecting taxes due your government.

But how do the star bases get trade value from systems beside them then? Because you need an outpost in the other system anyway to be able to colonize and put ops there..

Also, you need to put an outpost in a system for it to be in your borders anyway, so you need to put an outpost in every single system (which seems a little odd to me)...

Starbase of any level above outpost collects from the system it is in. Each trade hub extends the range of collection by one jump, meaning that base will collect trade from any neighboring system (or through a wormhole or gateway if applicable)

If you have 5 hubs on one base it will collect trade from all systems that can be reached within 5 jumps or less.

Turn on trade map mode to ensure your trade Starbases are green. If they are red select them and right click your capital to route the trade to it.

Yes you do need an outpost because you only collect trade inside your borders, and if there's no outpost you don't own the system. However, outposts don't collect trade.

[Ixtab]

Thanks everyone, I think I get it now.... I do still feel it odd that you need to build an outpost in every system. I don't know how the AI seems to have the resources to have such a huge area... and maybe I am blind, but it doesnt looks like they have outposts in every system within their borders

[Aethrys]

You probably lack sensor vision range and can't see the outposts there.

[tempest.of.emptiness]

Originally posted by Ixtab:

okay, and what exactly is 'trade'? The game seems really fuzzy in some of these areas... is that the minerals and energy and research from systems? or is it more like the crystals and alloys?

Trade value is its own "resource" with its own icon. Most trade value is produced on inhabited planets, but it is also possible to find "wild" trade value in a system with or without a habitable planet. This trade value appears similar to other resource deposits (but with its own trade value icon, of course) on bodies in space (asteroids, planets, or whatever). Unlike proper resource deposits, a mining or research station is not needed to collect trade value. Instead a star base does that. As noted in a previous post, trade hubs will increase the collection range of the star base they are built on, extending the base collection range (just its own system) by one jump per trade hub. (A hyperlane registrar built on a star base can also add an additional jump to collection range.)

Actual resource deposits (minerals, energy, crystals, alloys, and so on - everything except trade value, in fact) requires a station build specifically to collect it, and none of these are affected by trade value collection range.

Originally posted by Ixtab:

I do still feel it odd that you need to build an outpost in every system.

An outpost is how the game tracks whether the system is controlled by an empire, and which empire that is. If you dismantle an outpost in a system then the system will become uncontrolled. Think of it as the minimum presence in a system that is necessary for other empires to recognize that you control that system.

Originally posted by Ixtab:

I don't know how the AI seems to have the resources to have such a huge area

Influence is usually the primary factor limiting early expansion. Certain types of empires get inherent discounts to the influence cost of building outposts to take uncontrolled systems, as does one of the traditions in the expansion tradition tree. The result is that some empires can claim three-to-four times as many systems as other empires. Furthermore, if you spend early influence on anything other than taking uncontrolled systems then you will "fall behind" the pace of even empires that pay the same influence cost as you (because the AI is almost always pouring all available influence into expansion until it has nowhere left to expand).

Originally posted by Ixtab:

maybe I am blind, but it doesnt looks like they have outposts in every system within their borders

An empire can skip systems when taking control of systems (although this is usually inefficient), so it is possible that they may not have outposts in all of the systems in their area. Those systems without outposts are not controlled by them, but if they are not bordering another empire then it is usually a safe bet that that empire can go back and take those systems at will at a later time.

Also note that if you are watching any of the v3.0 update being streamed by Paradox, changes to how knowledge of the galaxy is obtained can make other empires appear not to control systems that they in fact do control, due to gaps in your knowledge about that empire and/or that region of space. These changes are being released to the public in about five days.

[Ixtab]

Thank you all for the answers. I think I understand now. I believe that part of my problem was building outposts too far out - I didnt realize that they ere more expensive the further out you go, so I was having trouble claiming systems.
I think I get the trade thing now too - I had not seen the systems with the little ring symbol for trade value before.

[HugsAndSnuggles]

Originally posted by Ixtab:

Thank you all for the answers. I think I understand now. I believe that part of my problem was building outposts too far out - I didnt realize that they ere more expensive the further out you go, so I was having trouble claiming systems.
I think I get the trade thing now too - I had not seen the systems with the little ring symbol for trade value before.

It's the same influence cost as building chain of outposts to that system; you do save on time and alloys by doing it, though - someitmes, it's more important to claim a choekpint now than skimp on influence.