Enigmatic Engineering

[StrictNine]

Does anyone ever use this perk? Been playing for a while and have never used it. I never see AI steal my tech. I never even see AI study crisis weapons or Enigmatic Fortress tech or special event techs. Is this perk even worth using at all?

[Storm]

no

[Aphil]

I use it, but mostly for flavour and roleplay.

[koimeiji]

i use it since i have mods to expand the tech tree beyond vanilla (whilst still being vanilla) and, once you get to those weapons, it's actually fairly dangerous to let the...lesser minded...have access to them.

also for roleplay. mostly for roleplay.

[Terminal]

I use it because I prefer to specifically tech-rush and I favor tech/research oriented civics and edicts, etcetera. I usually have a substantial tech lead over essentially everybody.

Even prior to Nemesis, I have observed AI science ships analyzing 'empty' space in various systems after battles, particularly after wars between me and their empire. Even if you win every battle, you still leave some debris behind due to however many minor ship losses you sustain, and AI definitely benefit research-wise or can even unlock new tech options because of it. They can unlock enigmatic encoders/decoders that way, for example.

Currently other civs also love to steal tech from you if you have a marked advantage, so Enigmatic Engineering is usually always my second pick.

[Oakshadow]

AI takes it a lot now. Which is kind of annoying. AI doesn't seem to use espionage much either. I mean they do. But only rarely. As it seems to prioritize intel over operations.

Is it worth taking? in multiplayer... yes. In solo? Maybe? But only if you're seeing direct evidence that the AI is going after you through espionage.

[VoiD]

I've taken it for the first time this week, never did in single player, doing it now because of MP

[HappySack]

I only use it for role playing when playing a devouring swarm to complement the Organic Ship Set (because you can't really reverse engineer living ships).

[PlutonArioch]

It is pretty much always my second perk choice. For one, it allows me to keep a tech lead, and keep tech that is unobtainable by normal research to myself, instead of giving everyone in the galaxy null void beams after one war. And secondly, it makes my sensors better, giving me more vision over my enemies.
I don't understand how some people could call it useless.

[StrictNine]

Originally posted by PlutonArioch:

...instead of giving everyone in the galaxy null void beams after one war...

Thats why I bring this up. I have never seen AI research unique weapon techs - and I always play in highest difficulty. Even after they fight me or crisis or even FE, none of the AI ever research the tech. I never see it on their ships.
If this is something that has recently changed, then Ill try to play closer attention and see what they do.

[PlutonArioch]

Originally posted by StrictNine:

Originally posted by PlutonArioch:

...instead of giving everyone in the galaxy null void beams after one war...

Thats why I bring this up. I have never seen AI research unique weapon techs - and I always play in highest difficulty. Even after they fight me or crisis or even FE, none of the AI ever research the tech. I never see it on their ships.
If this is something that has recently changed, then Ill try to play closer attention and see what they do.

I am not aware of any recent changes in this regard, but if I leave debris after a war, the AI has always analyzed all the debris. So, whenever I have some unique tech in my ships, that is better than what the AI has, you can bet they will research it, and I will usually see it on at least some of their (newest) ships before the truce is over.

The AI does not seem to upgrade their ships ever in my games, so it takes a bit longer for new tech to become a standard in their fleet, but they will start building ships with it before the next war. I am not sure about crisis tech, since I usually don't pay much attention to the AI ships anymore once a crisis hits. They can never beat it, and they could not threaten me even with great tech at this point. Usually I fight the crisis alone anyways, so they don't even get the debris. The only AIs usually capable of even downing one crisis ship are the FEs and they don't change their tech.

The only change in this is that the AI will now also choose enigmatic engineering, which they did not before, so at least they might not spread the tech everywhere immediately. I was glad to see it when I could not steal tech from my neighbor in a recent test game.

[Ryika]

Originally posted by Terminal:

I use it because I prefer to specifically tech-rush and I favor tech/research oriented civics and edicts, etcetera. I usually have a substantial tech lead over essentially everybody.

Even prior to Nemesis, I have observed AI science ships analyzing 'empty' space in various systems after battles, particularly after wars between me and their empire. Even if you win every battle, you still leave some debris behind due to however many minor ship losses you sustain, and AI definitely benefit research-wise or can even unlock new tech options because of it. They can unlock enigmatic encoders/decoders that way, for example.

Currently other civs also love to steal tech from you if you have a marked advantage, so Enigmatic Engineering is usually always my second pick.

You could just pick something that helps you maintain your lead.

You're essentially spending a vital perk to prevent some AIs from catching up with you as quickly, when you could just pick something that allows you to get further ahead of everybody else.

[utilityguy]

It's one of those perks that badly need stellaris to provide a powerful reason to use.
If hacking was much more threatening throughout the entire game, I could see Enigmatic engineering become useful then... but, honestly, just have Enigmatic Engineering lead to a questline that provides your empire with fallen empire technologies, as that would provide a neat reward for those who waste an ascension perk on it.

[Aethrys]

It is situationally useful if you're playing competitive multi-player and are eclipsing other players in ship tech.

[Terminal]

Originally posted by Ryika:

Originally posted by Terminal:

I use it because I prefer to specifically tech-rush and I favor tech/research oriented civics and edicts, etcetera. I usually have a substantial tech lead over essentially everybody.

Even prior to Nemesis, I have observed AI science ships analyzing 'empty' space in various systems after battles, particularly after wars between me and their empire. Even if you win every battle, you still leave some debris behind due to however many minor ship losses you sustain, and AI definitely benefit research-wise or can even unlock new tech options because of it. They can unlock enigmatic encoders/decoders that way, for example.

Currently other civs also love to steal tech from you if you have a marked advantage, so Enigmatic Engineering is usually always my second pick.

You could just pick something that helps you maintain your lead.

You're essentially spending a vital perk to prevent some AIs from catching up with you as quickly, when you could just pick something that allows you to get further ahead of everybody else.

The benefit of Enigmatic Engineering is that it only requires one other Ascension Perk before you can pick it and there are not a lot of early Ascension picks I like. Tech Ascendancy and Eternal Vigilance are my usual picks for first slot. Even if I do not pick Enigmatic Engineering early on I usually wind up taking it regardless just because I dislike most of the Ascendance Perks available by default, so at least for me it usually always has a solid benefit to it.

I get that you are saying I should pick some other Perk that lets me get out of my tall bubble and kick twelve kinds of ass so hard that it rocks them all back into the stone age, but that is just not personally what I usually aim to do.

[StrictNine]

Originally posted by Terminal:

Tech Ascendancy and Eternal Vigilance are my usual picks for first slot.

Really? Am I the only one that goes for Transcended learning immediately? lol
I find that perk essential to getting ahead of other empires. That +50 learning experience towards leaders is underrated imo.
Tech Ascend used to be my first until I started playing with Transc learning. Now I just skip Tech Ascend.