Reinforce fleet and upgrade fleet kinda broken?

[Falesz]

Hey all,
I just can't seem to understand or trust this button. Sometimes reinforcing a fleet will order in more ships than what is wanted. In my current game, I had a fleet at full strength, but the button was available.. so I clicked it to see what it would do. It doubled the number of all of my ship classes, so basically I think the game thought the fleet was empty. The other thing is upgrading. I *just* upgraded my fleet and I'm pretty sure I haven't researched any new ship components since I gave the upgrade order, and just as the upgrading gets completed, they are again available for upgrading. What's going on with that?

Are components upgraded just 1 level at a time, so if I have components that are 2 or more levels outdated, those need to be upgraded 1 level at a time? The only explanation I can think of apart from the function being just plain broken.

[Elitewrecker PT]

For the first part, maybe those ships weren't upgraded.

No, upgrades are all done at the same time. Compare the new "upgraded" ships to the designs, see if there's any difference.

[Razor Feather]

Have you been using the automatically created designs? They will often attempt covert themseves into different designs for whatever reason, which screws with the fleet manager and makes them ask for upgrades when they shouldn’t. The solution is to not use autocreated designs.

[Molybdane]

The reinforce butten should not spntaneously allow the doubling of the fleet. Rahter, when you hit that button, shipyards in the neighbourhood will build ships up to what is allowed in the fleet. I can't tell from your post if you're familiar with the fleet design (composition?) button.

Originally posted by Razor Feather:

Have you been using the automatically created designs? They will often attempt covert themseves into different designs for whatever reason, which screws with the fleet manager and makes them ask for upgrades when they shouldn’t. The solution is to not use autocreated designs.

Yep, you probably have two designs for the same type of ship. Auto design probably caused this.

[Falesz]

I have not yet used the fleet manager at all, so no, I don't think I know the fleet composition thing :/ The only thing I know about composition is when I select a fleet, above the list of my vessels is the list of ship classes present in the fleet that says how many ships are wanted in the fleet and how many are actually present. Until now I figured the reinforce fleet button would simply order the building of new ships up to the desired amount of ships in the fleet and direct them to merge with the fleet.

I'm not at all using auto-generated ships. I design my own ship configs every time I build a new ship class for the first time or unlock a new major component.
Although to be honest I do have auto-generated designs for the Titan and the Ion Cannon, cause I haven't built any of those yet.

[Falesz]

Happened again

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2499500146

[Elitewrecker PT]

I believe that's because you can upgrade them, so the fleet manager thinks you're missing intended ships. You have the option of upgrading existing ones, which requires going to a shipyard, or build new updated ones remotely, to fulfil the template

[Falesz]

Do we have any insight on whether this is going to be fixed or at least made more intuitive? How transparent is Paradox with their game development? I'm relatively new to the game, I don't really know about this stuff

[SkiRich]

Originally posted by Bonus:

Do we have any insight on whether this is going to be fixed or at least made more intuitive? How transparent is Paradox with their game development? I'm relatively new to the game, I don't really know about this stuff

Have you documented this is a bug report on paradoxplaza.com ? This is the users forum. To report the bug officially go onto their site and bug forum for Stellaris.

[Falesz]

Not yet, I didn't know whether this is a known issue or something just brought in with the latest update

[Elitewrecker PT]

It's not a bug, it's how the manager functions and gives you the choice of updating or building new ships immediately when a new design is available.

[Falesz]

Originally posted by Elitewrecker PT:

It's not a bug, it's how the manager functions and gives you the choice of updating or building new ships immediately when a new design is available.

If it's not a bug, then it's incredibly stupid and counter-intuitive game design in my book.

To my understanding, the entire point of having several different classes of the same ship type is to make diverse fleets possible. Some battleships act as carriers, others as heavy artillery. So the main aspect that determines a ship is it's class. If I have say a single class called Arty, then I want all ships of that class to have the same components. If I have 10 Arty-class ships and click to upgrade them, I definitely do not want 10 other Arty-class ships, which are somehow different in design, to be built, but instead I want my existing 10 ships to be reconfigured according to the currently existing Arty design. Building another 10 ships might put me over my naval capacity, I might not have the upkeep requirements met for them, etc.

I'm really trying to wrap my head around the logic of how this is working and I honestly can't understand it.

[Elitewrecker PT]

Ummm yes... that's what the UPGRADE button does, on the other side of the fleet window you screenshotted. It sends the fleet to the nearest shipyard to upgrade any ship that has had changes to its design, the upgrade button shouldn't queue building ships, that's the reinforce button.

[SkiRich]

The only time I have ever had duplication of ships is when:
1) My fleet is in enemy territory and the reinforcements have no route to the fleet so they make new fleet.
2) I build a megashipyard in the same system where there is a shipyard in the starbase. This second one is still a problem in 3.x
Not everytime, but more often times then it should happen.

The upgrade being wonky I have also seen in 3.x but its not necessarily a flaw.
The upgrade (as well a reinforce) will only upgrade the ships it can afford materials on. Sometimes, even in the same ship, if there are multiple components to upgrade, only one will upgrade because you dont have enough resources.
It would be nice if the process told you what or how many ships its going to do each time.
You can kinda game this out by observing the amount of resources the upgrade will cost, and if significantly lower than your current depots then you know all ships are getting an upgrade.

[Falesz]

Yeah to continue my thought experiment
If I have 10 outdated Arty ships in a fleet that has 10 slots designated to Arty ships then.. I don't want any reinforcements. I don't see why the reinforce button would be available. The fleet has 10 Arty ships out of 10 desired Arty ships. Cool. Are they outdated? Yeah its possibly, thats why they can be upgraded. Why is the reinforcement available?

[SkiRich]

Any ship mods?