My Ally Stole A Bunch of My Territory

[Saturn830]

So the Great Khan took out a bunch of my starbases and because territory control is tied to starbases I lost control of those systems. Before I could rebuild them my federation ally started to build bases and claim those systems, even ones that were completely encompassed in my borders. I had no way to stop it- no way to claim those systems without starbases, no way to tell my own ally to f off- I couldn't even close borders because we were in a Federation together.

Am I missing something? 20+ hours of gameplay ruined due to rng, bad AI, and a lack of basic diplomacy features. This isn't challenging gameplay, it's poor design. How can their be no way to claim ownership on territories you've held for centuries even to your own allies? Even Civilization can do something as simple as keeping track of who initially founded a city and the diplomacy features in that game are significantly less than in Stellaris.

[Sero]

Systems are not the space equal to cities.

[Cian]

It's just poor design. You can do the same to your allies and the AI doesn't even recognize that you're doing it.

[pete3great]

itsfreerealestate.gif Take it as a lesson and do it to them next time.

[mss73055]

This also works with the Spectral Wraith.
You can nicely claim systems as it plows through your allies.

[MChrisp]

Oh well, I am not the only one then. Happend to me just now. I not only lost some of my territory, I lost all of it at once. That was a great experience. 20 hours of a very promising game just gone. What the hell... Is there a way to prevent that? Shortly before that happend, I actually found out, that you can claim territory and I did as there where two planets of another player just within my borders. But it does not really explain, how it even works...

[talemore]

Wine, wine, wine

[Elitewrecker PT]

Originally posted by MChrisp:

Oh well, I am not the only one then. Happend to me just now. I not only lost some of my territory, I lost all of it at once. That was a great experience. 20 hours of a very promising game just gone. What the hell... Is there a way to prevent that? Shortly before that happend, I actually found out, that you can claim territory and I did as there where two planets of another player just within my borders. But it does not really explain, how it even works...

You claim, and then you declare war to take those claims.
As for being integrated, you prevent it, by fighting for your independence when you start being integrated.

[Soteria]

Been there. Gotta rebuild your own starbases faster. The galaxy is a harsh place.

[GeneralVeers]

No, you didn't miss anything.

You got backstabbed by an ally.

True, the AI wasn't specifically programmed with "wait for ally's territory to lose its starbase, then grab it". Your starbase went boom, your ally saw an open angle to get another star system, and took it. Had the roles been reversed, you would have had the opportunity to pull the same stunt while your AI ally just sat there helplessly and went "wtf bro, u suck".

[Lance]

So.. your argument is that it's "bad AI" because the AI is doing something that every player does when given the chance? Wouldn't that actually be good AI?

There are legitimate complaints about the AI, but this clearly is not one of them.

[Phenian]

Originally posted by Lance:

So.. your argument is that it's "bad AI" because the AI is doing something that every player does when given the chance? Wouldn't that actually be good AI?

There are legitimate complaints about the AI, but this clearly is not one of them.

No, this is the AI being bad. A human player ally will trade the sectors back or let you reclaim them. The AI never trades sectors or planets, ever. The AI is constantly a backstabbing ally and doesn't play any other way. It doesn't know how.

[legion248]

Specifically the AI was flat out redesigned to never trade systems/planets in the early days after release, because it was too easy to exploit, and PDX took the brute force/low work solution.

Just buying out the AIs key resource systems to force them into an economic death spiral was dirt cheap, cheaper by far then the fleet+infrastructure support.

[Flex0r75]

I had something along this line that I found much more egregious that OP's example. I built a starbase next to the FE that doesn't want any border contact to excavate a dig site. He started threatening me and in stead of waiting I took some of his outer territory with poorly defended colonies.

After 10 years of truce, he declared war to regain control of his systems AND to enforce his one jump of free space between him and any other empire rule. So in the case of one of his previous colonies, his war goal was to destroy it. I found that rather silly. It would have been nice if they could reevaluate their war goals mid-war, at least for this specific type of FE. First take back your systems and THEN determine which systems need to be cleared to enforce the no bordering empire rule.

I guess you have to draw the line somewhere with all the checks needed for any decision the AI needs to make so you just have to go with the flow. Always have a few contruction ships on standby throughout your empire. I believe the AI will never skip more than 1 system from their border to build an outpost. That could be a way to secure your lost systems, by reclaiming lost systems near borders first and then work your way to your inner core from there.

[Miyu]

Stuff happens, learn and move on.

[Saturn830]

Originally posted by GeneralVeers:

True, the AI wasn't specifically programmed with "wait for ally's territory to lose its starbase, then grab it". Your starbase went boom, your ally saw an open angle to get another star system, and took it. Had the roles been reversed, you would have had the opportunity to pull the same stunt while your AI ally just sat there helplessly and went "wtf bro, u suck".

Originally posted by Lance:

So.. your argument is that it's "bad AI" because the AI is doing something that every player does when given the chance? Wouldn't that actually be good AI?

It's bad AI that they don't complain about you grabbing their systems either. Territorial protection should basically be the number one thing that two allied states are concerned about but the game somehow doesn't have a way to recognize it. It's somewhat bizarre in the first place that the AI horde actually destroys starbases and 'deletes' territory when it doesn't happen in regular wars. I guess its a flavor thing because they're violent marauders, but with territory being tied to exclusively to the existence of a starbase it doesn't work well.

Originally posted by Flex0r75:

I believe the AI will never skip more than 1 system from their border to build an outpost. That could be a way to secure your lost systems, by reclaiming lost systems near borders first and then work your way to your inner core from there.

That could be true. In my game it was seizing systems in the heart of my empire but that may have been a wormhole there screwing me over. The wormhole giveth and the wormhole taketh away.