Discovery vs expansion as an opening tradition?

[Chuddly]

I don't see anything recent when I search it. Maybe nothing has changed with the traditions, I'm too new (15 hours in) to know but both seem like really good opening traditions. The +1 pop on colonized worlds and 10'% pop growth of expansion seems incredible but the 35% increase in surveying and 20% in anomaly investigation is also incredible plus finishing discovery gives you 10% boost to research. I can't tell which is better early on. I sort of feel like starting with discovery for the survey boost then going to expansion, finishing it, then going back to discovery to finish it is a good strategy.

what do you think?

[SkiRich]

I always do discovery before expansion.
Survey and research speed are key early on.
But while that is happening I really push for maximizing my unity so I can get expansion very quickly afterwards.

[HappySack]

Depends on how much you value teching vs expanding, personally I almost always start expansion and get discovery 3rd or 4th once I can afford making tech worlds.

Just note that going into new tradition trees increase tradition costs so don't go crazy on that.

[SkiRich]

It may be my particular situation. I play StarTech AI. Falling behind in tech is a death sentence with that mod.

[HappySack]

Can you even make federations with StarTech? a mindless bloodbath is kind of the reason I've been avoiding it compared to regular StarNet and the friendship sub-mod.

[SkiRich]

Originally posted by HappySack:

Can you even make federations with StarTech? a mindless bloodbath is kind of the reason I've been avoiding it compared to regular StarNet and the friendship sub-mod.

Feds are no problem at all. I spin up a Science Fed as early as I can and that basically saves all the participants from being eaten.
I've notice with the mod, if you can reasonably keep up with fleet power and tech you are left alone, so the trick is not to ignore fleet strength after the 40 year beginning truce.

[Chuddly]

Originally posted by SkiRich:

I always do discovery before expansion.
Survey and research speed are key early on.
But while that is happening I really push for maximizing my unity so I can get expansion very quickly afterwards.

So you'd start and finish discovery before even looking at expansion?

[Chuddly]

Originally posted by HappySack:

Depends on how much you value teching vs expanding, personally I almost always start expansion and get discovery 3rd or 4th once I can afford making tech worlds.

Just note that going into new tradition trees increase tradition costs so don't go crazy on that.

Good points I guess an argument can be made for both traditions at the start.

[Chuddly]

Originally posted by SkiRich:

It may be my particular situation. I play StarTech AI. Falling behind in tech is a death sentence with that mod.

Does it make the AI smarter and more efficient or just give them unfair advantages and increase their aggression?

[Half Phased]

It comes down to the build your playing. If you’re playing a game that’s economic or military focused early game then expansion will be the better pick, letting you get more territory, more pops and less admin sprawl early on.

Tech rush builds should take discovery first, for the sole reason of researcher upkeep reduction and research speed boost. The “faster survey speed” is addressed by more science ships.

Regardless of which one you pick first, the other one should ideally be your second pick. Unless you have an early war, where picking up supremacy 2nd may be a better choice.

Regardless, technological ascendancy should always be your first ascension perk.

[Half Phased]

Originally posted by Mr CanEHdian:

Originally posted by SkiRich:

I always do discovery before expansion.
Survey and research speed are key early on.
But while that is happening I really push for maximizing my unity so I can get expansion very quickly afterwards.

So you'd start and finish discovery before even looking at expansion?

Each open Tradition tree increases the cost of traditions by 5%. In the longer run, completing each tree 1 by 1 is faster.

Edit: not to mention, the finisher effects on discovery and expansion can be the most powerful effects of those trees. The +10% research speed of discovery is far superior to anything else in that tree, and the +1 district slot of discovery is a good boon for all planets. Just get a little bit more out of them.

[SkiRich]

Originally posted by Mr CanEHdian:

Originally posted by SkiRich:

I always do discovery before expansion.
Survey and research speed are key early on.
But while that is happening I really push for maximizing my unity so I can get expansion very quickly afterwards.

So you'd start and finish discovery before even looking at expansion?

Yep, but I do max all my unity using traits and buildings and that election time award (democracy 10 year elections), so discovery is done very quick.

[SkiRich]

Originally posted by Mr CanEHdian:

Originally posted by SkiRich:

It may be my particular situation. I play StarTech AI. Falling behind in tech is a death sentence with that mod.

Does it make the AI smarter and more efficient or just give them unfair advantages and increase their aggression?

Yes and yes. No unfair advantages. I find that they pose a serious challenge to me. I play a science rush game, and now they do too.
I do not start any games with advanced ai or advanced neighbors either.

[Holy Fool Sehrael]

I usually go for Discovery because of survey speed and stuff, then uhm... what's the name... Prosperity for that sweet +1 housing + upkeep reduction and then I go for expansion. It may not be ideal, but it served me well ^^

[Chuddly]

Originally posted by Half Phased:

It comes down to the build your playing. If you’re playing a game that’s economic or military focused early game then expansion will be the better pick, letting you get more territory, more pops and less admin sprawl early on.

Tech rush builds should take discovery first, for the sole reason of researcher upkeep reduction and research speed boost. The “faster survey speed” is addressed by more science ships.

Regardless of which one you pick first, the other one should ideally be your second pick. Unless you have an early war, where picking up supremacy 2nd may be a better choice.

Regardless, technological ascendancy should always be your first ascension perk.

I don't know enough about my builds lmao so I try to base it on how good the first few systems I survey are.

[Chuddly]

Originally posted by Half Phased:

Originally posted by Mr CanEHdian:

So you'd start and finish discovery before even looking at expansion?

Each open Tradition tree increases the cost of traditions by 5%. In the longer run, completing each tree 1 by 1 is faster.

Edit: not to mention, the finisher effects on discovery and expansion can be the most powerful effects of those trees. The +10% research speed of discovery is far superior to anything else in that tree, and the +1 district slot of discovery is a good boon for all planets. Just get a little bit more out of them.

That makes sense yeah, thanks!