Only 1 Forge Per Planet

[Ravon[17]]

Is it just me or does Paradox not think about balance at all.

So bigger empires get access to a heck of a lot more alloy then a smaller one because they simply can build more. Without the ability for build more forges you once again slap low planet Civs. It's awkward, since the whole point of these recent revamps has been to knock larger Civs down.

I don't quite remember the reason they limited the number of forges or fabs(had to do with the districts), but it was short sited. If you turn a world into a forge world you should be able to build as many as you want. You can also put a debuff on it to coincide with whatever the reason was to limit forges to begin with.

[Terijian]

You can build as many industrial districts as you want so you're not really limited anyway. A small empire with a high population can easily outpace the production of a much larger but less populous empire.

[pauloandrade224]

Originally posted by Ravon17:

Is it just me or does Paradox not think about balance at all.

So bigger empires get access to a heck of a lot more alloy then a smaller one because they simply can build more. Without the ability for build more forges you once again slap low planet Civs. It's awkward, since the whole point of these recent revamps has been to knock larger Civs down.

I don't quite remember the reason they limited the number of forges or fabs(had to do with the districts), but it was short sited. If you turn a world into a forge world you should be able to build as many as you want. You can also put a debuff on it to coincide with whatever the reason was to limit forges to begin with.

You build industry districts now the forges are basically a buffing building now.

Build industry district give the planet the Forge designation AND BAM welcome to alloy factory planet!

[Plain, Simple, Garak]

Don't even need a planet, just use habitats.

[Elitewrecker PT]

You seem to be misinterpreting the whole change.
The forge building increases the output of every alloy job, and you can build as many industrial districts (which generate alloy jobs) as the size of the planet.
The change affects both wide and tall empires equally.

[ScreamCon]

Every patch I have seen that were advertised as knocking some builds had details in the fine print of what their actually changing tends to be a boost instead. As far as removing industrial buildings, you can build more science then industrial buildings on the building slots.

This means you want to maximise your industrial districts cutting down your number of city districts when building slot gain and housing allows. While also maximising resource districts.

As far as big empires getting the edge... I don't think the patch for say made small empires bad, as you could loot pops as the bigger empire gets slower to grow them over multiple planets. Small empires never were feasible to start with. Okay maybe you could get away with 5 planets by looting enough pops etc. But eventually not having 20 planets is going to have its toll.

Trying to beat the crisis and expecting to win with the sheer power of 5 planets is like bringing stones to a gun fight. You need to war your neighbour as soon as possible so can put yourself at least into the 15 planet range.

[Spirit]

Originally posted by Terijian:

You can build as many industrial districts as you want so you're not really limited anyway. A small empire with a high population can easily outpace the production of a much larger but less populous empire.

with a ecumenopolis you can fuel your whole alloy/consumer good consumption by this one world alone (only with the megacorp dlc) , otherwise you have to specialize 2 planets

[Ravon[17]]

Originally posted by Terijian:

You can build as many industrial districts as you want so you're not really limited anyway. A small empire with a high population can easily outpace the production of a much larger but less populous empire.

Not really, each district only produces 1 metallurgist job. A far cry from 6 fully upgraded. So you would need 6 districts to equal 1 forge. Its absolutely uneven. Now your planet has 6 less districts for minerals and citys.

[Ravon[17]]

Originally posted by pauloandrade224:

Build industry district give the planet the Forge designation AND BAM welcome to alloy factory planet!

Thats the problem is the district usage. You'd need 6 districts to equal 1 upgraded forge. Most planets are size 15 (average) so almost half your districts are used to produce alloy.

[Ravon[17]]

Originally posted by Plain, Simple, Garak:

Don't even need a planet, just use habitats.

Still you need alloy for that. Tons of it. So the bigger empire that has planets gets forges without the price tag.

[Ravon[17]]

Originally posted by Elitewrecker PT:

You seem to be misinterpreting the whole change.
The forge building increases the output of every alloy job, and you can build as many industrial districts (which generate alloy jobs) as the size of the planet.
The change affects both wide and tall empires equally.

I don't misinterpret, you'd need 6 districts to equal 1 upgraded forge. And districts in a small empire are super limited. So, how would you produce enough alloy. Simple, you don't.

[Ravon[17]]

Originally posted by ScreamCon:

Every patch I have seen that were advertised as knocking some builds had details in the fine print of what their actually changing tends to be a boost instead. As far as removing industrial buildings, you can build more science then industrial buildings on the building slots.

This means you want to maximise your industrial districts cutting down your number of city districts when building slot gain and housing allows. While also maximising resource districts.

As far as big empires getting the edge... I don't think the patch for say made small empires bad, as you could loot pops as the bigger empire gets slower to grow them over multiple planets. Small empires never were feasible to start with. Okay maybe you could get away with 5 planets by looting enough pops etc. But eventually not having 20 planets is going to have its toll.

Trying to beat the crisis and expecting to win with the sheer power of 5 planets is like bringing stones to a gun fight. You need to war your neighbour as soon as possible so can put yourself at least into the 15 planet range.

It's not hard to beat the crisis with 5 planets. In fact crisis are super weak, but besides the point. My whole gripe is that if you had two empires fighting the one with the most alloy production will win. (I'm talking about PvP, where you both generally tech at the same speed but habitual worlds differ). I have a world with all industry/mining districts and consumer goods off and still can't compete.

[Ravon[17]]

Originally posted by Spirit:

Originally posted by Terijian:

You can build as many industrial districts as you want so you're not really limited anyway. A small empire with a high population can easily outpace the production of a much larger but less populous empire.

with a ecumenopolis you can fuel your whole alloy/consumer good consumption by this one world alone (only with the megacorp dlc) , otherwise you have to specialize 2 planets

That tech is way too far in the game. Like tradition 6. But sure, you can make alot of alloy with those districts. But what stops the other empire with more planets from have more ecumenpolis?

[Maya-Neko]

Originally posted by Ravon17:

Not really, each district only produces 1 metallurgist job. A far cry from 6 fully upgraded. So you would need 6 districts to equal 1 forge. Its absolutely uneven. Now your planet has 6 less districts for minerals and citys.

What do you even compare it against? Your enemies have the same production rates as you, so you don't really loose anything relatively against other empires.

Also keep the planetary features and designations in mind, as well as pop immigration. These days it's quite strong to specialize planets, so you don't need to have alloy production on every single planet and can still dominate the galaxy with overwhelming industrial output.

Originally posted by Ravon17:

Originally posted by Spirit:

with a ecumenopolis you can fuel your whole alloy/consumer good consumption by this one world alone (only with the megacorp dlc) , otherwise you have to specialize 2 planets

That tech is way too far in the game. Like tradition 6. But sure, you can make alot of alloy with those districts. But what stops the other empire with more planets from have more ecumenpolis?

The ecumenpolis can be picked as early as 3rd Ascension Perk and the techs needed for can occur quite early in the game as well, if you know, what you need.

And there are 3 points, why big empires can't just build tons of ecumenopolis:
- They're quite expensive and time consuming for early/mid game standards (especially for 20+ sized planets) and even big empires start small (and by the time, where you could pump them out like crazy it's normally not necessary anymore. 1-2 are normally enough to beat the AI and end game crisis)
- You need many pops to even fill one ecumenopolis, which takes several decades on top of the building time
- you need tremendous amounts of minerals to fully utilize a big ecumenopolis. These planets can't produce it themselves, so they need to be fueled by other planets with it. And when you've many pops and buildings around, then some generator and farming would be nice as well, which also can't be build on these ecumenopolis.

But in the end it's always stronger to be bigger than smaller, no matter how you balance the production buildings. That's basically just how economy works.

[Fabiaville]

the large changes to pops & jobs is due to the fact paradox wanted to reduce end-game lag by reducing the total amount of pops needed. they did this by increasing job yields & decreasing the amount of jobs.
the foundry & fab buildings were limited to 1 per planet due to this, HOWEVER they now increase the output of their respective jobs, making them still highly usefull.
they added the industrial district to compensate for the loss of the building(they also wanted all 'physical' resources to come from districts). which grant 1 job for foundry & factory

you can specialize the industrial district by setting the foundry or factory colony designation shifting one job to the job you prefer. eg setting foundry designation will make industrial districts have 2 metal jobs instead of 1:1.

i find this change actually really good since you don't need a large amount of rare resource production to get good alloy output anymore. and in later stages a ecumumopolis is also good to capitalize on that foundry building's job bonuses.

[Kapika96]

Originally posted by Ravon17:

Originally posted by Terijian:

You can build as many industrial districts as you want so you're not really limited anyway. A small empire with a high population can easily outpace the production of a much larger but less populous empire.

Not really, each district only produces 1 metallurgist job. A far cry from 6 fully upgraded. So you would need 6 districts to equal 1 forge. Its absolutely uneven. Now your planet has 6 less districts for minerals and citys.

Nope. Each district produces 2 metallurgist jobs (use the forge world designation).

1 district = 6 alloys
1 foundry = 6 alloys
1 fully upgraded foundry = 10 alloys
1 district on a planet with a fully upgraded foundry = 10 alloys

Districts produce the exact same number of alloys that foundries do, upgraded foundries boost districts on that planet so the net result is that they're still equal. No idea where you're getting your "6 districts to equal 1 foundry" nonsense from.

If they removed the 1 per planet limitation (they'd also remove the +2 alloys per job otherwise it would be OP) of foundries then it would still be just 1 district = 6 alloys, 1 foundry = 6 alloys. They'd be exactly equal still, and you can typically build more industrial districts on a planet than you can buildings anyway. Technically that change would be a nerf too. ie. now a planet with 10 districts + 1 foundry would produce 110 alloys, with that change a planet with 10 districts + 10 foundries would produce 120 alloys. Technically more alloys, yes, but you're using an extra 18 pops just to get 10 more alloys, a really bad deal.