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Hawk 2021 年 10 月 2 日 上午 10:15
Are Gene Clinics worth it?
Been trying to work out if they are worth a building slot, but finding them difficult to assess. What do you all think?
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正在显示第 16 - 30 条,共 30 条留言
Malkuth 2021 年 10 月 2 日 下午 5:05 
With the new pop growth modifications from 3.0, you be silly not too. Might been the case pre 3.0 they were crap. But now.

Anything pop, is win now. Including robots etc.
Ryika 2021 年 10 月 2 日 下午 5:47 
Imho they're still pretty bad. But they do at least have a theoretical niche now.

The extra Habitability boost would actually be quite useful if it boosted a large planet full of pops that aren't habitability-capped yet, but "large planets full of pops" is exactly the opposite of what you want since 3.0, because of how the bonus growth from Carrying Capacity works.

On the average ~20 pop planet, the habitability just doesn't affect enough pops to really be worth it, and Entertainers will have a much stronger impact on Happiness. The Growth they provide barely does anything (that's even more true since 3.0, not less as some argue, since growth needed scales up now), and the same is true for Organic Pop Assembly aside from also not being applicable to most empire types.
coolman552 2021 年 10 月 3 日 上午 1:25 
i build them for rp plus the medical symbol looks cool
CrUsHeR 2021 年 10 月 3 日 上午 6:47 
Pops = power. More pop growth rate = more power faster.

To illustrate the problem:


Let's say your empire will eventually no longer grow pops, at least not in amounts they would still impact the outcome of the game before 2500. Wether this is the case by 2350 or 2275 simply depends on how fast your empire acquired new pops during the early game.

If you had an average population of 20 per planet, then having a gene clinic in every colony would mean that 10% of your population would be medical workers. Upgrading them would be 20%.

This would mean that 10-20% of your population are doing a job which no longer fulfills its primary role, the pop growth. Every other job associated with the secondary roles of medical workers would be more effective.

Even worse is the problem that building slots are so limited now; every planet can hold a maximum of 11 buildings. So question is also, what else could you build in the same slot.
最后由 CrUsHeR 编辑于; 2021 年 10 月 3 日 上午 6:48
Helios 2021 年 10 月 3 日 上午 7:20 
引用自 CrUsHeR
Pops = power. More pop growth rate = more power faster.

To illustrate the problem:


Let's say your empire will eventually no longer grow pops, at least not in amounts they would still impact the outcome of the game before 2500. Wether this is the case by 2350 or 2275 simply depends on how fast your empire acquired new pops during the early game.

If you had an average population of 20 per planet, then having a gene clinic in every colony would mean that 10% of your population would be medical workers. Upgrading them would be 20%.

This would mean that 10-20% of your population are doing a job which no longer fulfills its primary role, the pop growth. Every other job associated with the secondary roles of medical workers would be more effective.

Even worse is the problem that building slots are so limited now; every planet can hold a maximum of 11 buildings. So question is also, what else could you build in the same slot.
Gene Clinics also have a huge bug involving priority if i want my people to work as police they wont leave the clinic job so if i get a new planet from war if i play a slaver i can only disable the building to use later or destroy it.
Hawk 2021 年 10 月 3 日 上午 7:22 
引用自 CrUsHeR
Pops = power. More pop growth rate = more power faster.

To illustrate the problem:


Let's say your empire will eventually no longer grow pops, at least not in amounts they would still impact the outcome of the game before 2500. Wether this is the case by 2350 or 2275 simply depends on how fast your empire acquired new pops during the early game.

If you had an average population of 20 per planet, then having a gene clinic in every colony would mean that 10% of your population would be medical workers. Upgrading them would be 20%.

This would mean that 10-20% of your population are doing a job which no longer fulfills its primary role, the pop growth. Every other job associated with the secondary roles of medical workers would be more effective.

Even worse is the problem that building slots are so limited now; every planet can hold a maximum of 11 buildings. So question is also, what else could you build in the same slot.


I play without the empire-wide pop cap, so does that make it more worthwhile?
Sero 2021 年 10 月 3 日 上午 8:30 
引用自 Hawk
I play without the empire-wide pop cap, so does that make it more worthwhile?
In absolute terms; yes.
It's still pretty crap.
CrUsHeR 2021 年 10 月 3 日 上午 9:10 
引用自 Hawk
I play without the empire-wide pop cap, so does that make it more worthwhile?

Generally yes, but the math is fairly complicated.


First off, the growth bonus from medical workers is not a total modifier, but it merely stacks with other modifiers of the same type.
So if your pops are Rapid Breeders and you have Genome Mapping researched, you already have a passive +20%. Then adding the nominal +20% from an upgraded gene clinics does effectively only add +16.7% compared to not having the gene clinics (one sixth instead of one fifth).

Of course there are other factors, like another 10% from Cloning, or 50% from living on an Ecumenopolis, or the Nutritional Plentitude edict, or some 5% from Irassian precursors. With each of these bonuses, the total effect of the medical workers gets diminished.

Each percent of Habitability below 100% reduces pop growth gradually by 0.5%, while pop growth speed bonuses stack against that.

And then there is immigration, which is applied to the base growth of pops, making the growth speed bonuses more valuable on planets with a high immigration score. Of course this has a separate bonus with Nomadic or Sedentary pops, making it less predictable.



Next is the question, how many pops need to work on a planet before those 2-4 medical workers are no longer taking up precious resources which other jobs could have generated.

Because you could have built a holo theatre instead, giving more amenities and a good portion of unity. This would have had a more measurable effect on your empire in the same time frame.

Though on planets which need upgraded colony centers to operate, there is no real option. Example you want to build research labs, then you need to reach 10 pops ASAP. So there is no real alternative to building a gene clinic, robot assembly, and a couple of urban districts.



You'd still generally want to replace the gene clinics at some point.

Without the pop growth scaling, your pops will still stop growing once the planet is (near) full, and if there are unemployed pops. In this case there is zero reason to keep the gene clinics.

Or if you have something like a research planet with all slots being advanced research complexes, with all researcher jobs being taken, you certainly want to have holo theatres or a galactic stock exchange replacing the gene clinics rather than any other important building.

Alternatively you can stop building new jobs when a planet is still at optimal capacity. Mostly this is the case if you have something like a large mining planet - after all mining districts are built and all other slots are infrastructure or refineries, and the planet is still getting the middle curve growth bonus, you could just let the pops auto-resettle to other colonies. In that case you should clearly keep the gene clinics, since the planet is actively producing pops.

This would be how you can quickly fill other, more productive planets, like an Ecumenopolis or a Ring World.
★REM★ 2021 年 10 月 3 日 上午 10:17 
They are, specially on slow growth pops. I always build it as soon as i unlock the building on all my planets
Ramonkey 2021 年 10 月 3 日 上午 11:24 
No
koimeiji 2021 年 10 月 3 日 下午 2:22 
if you're minmaxing, no

if you're just playing for fun/rp, especially with the galactic pseudo carrying capacity disabled, probably

if you're playing modded, specifically with a mod(s) that give you more building slots, yes
Oakshadow 2021 年 10 月 3 日 下午 7:01 
They're a good early game building, for getting your new colonies up and running before you have transit hubs going and a decent sized population to move around. You're not going to want to keep them long term though, just until you've gotten the colony decently established.
BlueBangkok 2021 年 10 月 3 日 下午 11:28 
No, at least not in vanilla. Build gene clinics only if role playing.
If what you want is power, gene clinics are crap. The habitability bonus is a meme, it effectively doesn't do anything, the growth bonus doesn't do much either. Only the amenities are sort of nice but you can get them from elsewhere.
The main problem with gene clinics, however, is the opportunity cost. Two pops working at the gene clinic are two pops *not* working other jobs (such as energy, research, alloys...). One building slot taken by the gene clinic is a building slot *not* taken by another building.
So if you want to build efficiently, gene clinics are never a good idea unless you are using mods to buff them.
最后由 BlueBangkok 编辑于; 2021 年 10 月 3 日 下午 11:29
pete3great 2021 年 10 月 4 日 上午 3:37 
Gene clinics are why I have too many pops while everyone else is complaining about not having enough.
BlueBangkok 2021 年 10 月 4 日 上午 4:10 
引用自 pete3great
Gene clinics are why I have too many pops while everyone else is complaining about not having enough.

No, unless you are playing with mods.
On default settings, a single gene clinic will "pay for itself" in about 3.5 decades, and the pop growth bonus is not multiplicative. In those 35 years or so, those two pops could have worked as metallurgists for example and give you over 2,000 alloys instead (assuming no further bonuses/penalties). Also you sacrificed a building slot.
So even after paradox buffing them both directly (by adding habitability) and indirectly (by changing the growth curve), they are still inefficient.
最后由 BlueBangkok 编辑于; 2021 年 10 月 4 日 上午 4:11
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发帖日期: 2021 年 10 月 2 日 上午 10:15
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