explore much, survey little at the start

[clif9710]

When I started playing Stellaris, I made the mistake of thinking I needed to survey each system as I expanded my empire. I've learned that it is much better to send out multiple science ships (4 or 5) to explore all hyperlane paths while leaving one or two science ships to survey. Influence points put a cap on how fast you can survey anyway.

There are two reasons for prioritizing exploration. First of all, it will tell you quickly what other empires are expanding where in your neighborhood and will make it clear where choke points are that will allow you to command hyperlane branches that nobody but you can colonize. When you find a dead end, you know nobody will be coming at you from there. Figure out how you can own it with a future survey and move on to explore other branches. It's always good to meet neighbors when they are a distance from you, before you happen across them surveying. You can plan to avoid or at least delay border confrontation with implacable foes.

The second and equally important reason is potential planets for settlement are revealed. They only show up when a science ship is in a system that contains one or more of them and they disappear as soon as the exploring ship leaves, so when you have multiple ships exploring you have to keep an eye on all your moving explorer science ships for the planet icons to appear, then remember in what systems they reside. It's very easy to forget where they appeared if you don't note the system names.

I play with habitable worlds minimized, so each planet is a treasure to grab with so few available. A planet discovered is a guide on what direction to survey to get to it. Grab before others do or cut their path to the planet with a surveyed system on that path! In my current game I couldn't find any planets within 4 lanes of Sol, then I found 4 in a small area only 1 or 2 lanes apart. No other empire was near them at the time so I bee-lined my surveying and grabbed all four leaving the nearest neighbor to struggle with only a homeworld.

Keep in mind you have to keep sprawl under control by putting up at least one and often two admin buildings, and you want to be surveying as fast as influence points will allow. Your exploring scientists will be building skill you can use later when they can replace researchers, but don't waste their time on investigating level 3 or higher anomalies, keep them moving and get back to the anomalies later or with a dedicated anomaly investigation science ship.

[coolman552]

i see early empire building as an art form

build the foundations by not colonizing dead end stars

and then fill in the blanks

i once managed to still be in the colonization phase in mid game with this strat

[Cryten]

Its worth noting that planetary icons do not persist in explored but unsurveyed systems. They are only visible when a ship is present in the system. That means you need to pay attention to your exploring science vessels and keep a good memory of locations.

Personally I would only dedicate a ship or two to exploring until you have an area suitably explored that covers your main pre conquering empire. After that your losing too much anomalies to AI empires.

Surveying has no influence cost, only expanding does. Instead surveying is limited by levels of your scientists and number of ships and scientists. You cant find anomalies (but can find dig sites) in systems allready surveyed by other normal AI empires.

[Zane87]

Also note that the obvious downside here is that you will actually get less anomalies. Except the terraform candidate anomaly, all others are finite and are generated at random (with some prerequisites) on a first come first serve basis.

You don't need to actually research them, but only through surveying you can spawn them and if the AI does so before you, well bad luck.

This is especially true for archaeology sites which aside few are anomaly spawned as well.


Otherwise yes, getting to know you surroundings and know where to expand first is extremely important. Personally, I really don't mind having a ton of science vessels early on, it potentially pays off big time.

[HyperKnight]

4 or 5 science ships at start? What a waste of alloys. I run two for an entire game, getting second when I colonized all close by planets.

[zacharyb]

Originally posted by HyperKnight:

4 or 5 science ships at start? What a waste of alloys. I run two for an entire game, getting second when I colonized all close by planets.

That sounds awful, I normally get 8 Science ships to explore with and even with that it can take a while to explore.

[Zane87]

Originally posted by HyperKnight:

4 or 5 science ships at start? What a waste of alloys. I run two for an entire game, getting second when I colonized all close by planets.

Yeah, I'd change that. Those alloys are meaningless when you can get anomalies that give empire-wide bonuses or uncover the Grand herald digsite or similar good stuff.
Not to mention that this also is awfully slow for exploration, meaning you can neither effectively expand nor know where to expand to.

You really just waste a ton of opportunity with that for few hundred of alloys. Get more science ships.

[HyperKnight]

Few hundreds of alloys is a few colonies asap, and I know where to expand with one science ship just fine - to where colonizable planets are.

[Zane87]

Originally posted by HyperKnight:

Originally posted by zacharyb:

That sounds awful, I normally get 8 Science ships to explore with and even with that it can take a while to explore.

You haven't played Zero-K for many years like I did, and haven't learned how to eco and expand.

That is the most irrelevant explanation in the history of irrelevant explanations. And we have the internet....

No seriously, not only does it matter 0 what an optimum strategy is in another game (given your claim actually holds any truth, it is the internet, people claim a lot...), it also is an extremely bad idea in this game. Alloys are important, but you can get them easy enough.

The long term opportunity costs of missed anomalies or giving other nations a chokepoint which you'd otherwise could have taken had you explored more or just to know where the best planets are and expanding to them asap are much, much higher than few hundred alloys in the early game which you could just as well trade in for.
(to a huge cost, granted, but still. Not to mention that faster early expansion in other systems with the resources you get from mining stations and the occasional alloy deposit pay off as well).

[zacharyb]

Originally posted by Zane87:

Originally posted by HyperKnight:

4 or 5 science ships at start? What a waste of alloys. I run two for an entire game, getting second when I colonized all close by planets.

Yeah, I'd change that. Those alloys are meaningless when you can get anomalies that give empire-wide bonuses or uncover the Grand herald digsite or similar good stuff.
Not to mention that this also is awfully slow for exploration, meaning you can neither effectively expand nor know where to expand to.

You really just waste a ton of opportunity with that for few hundred of alloys. Get more science ships.

Agreed, plus unless you're going war heavy alloys are kinda unneeded at the start, especially since you can get away with not building a fleet most of the time by just using envoys to increase relations. Plus on your point about slower exploration it technically means you lose out on economic benefits from slower planet colonization and it's also better to get colonies up as fast as possible.

Tbh it could probably be argued that spending your alloys on anything other than science ships and colony ships early on is a waste of alloys.

[Zane87]

Originally posted by HyperKnight:

Few hundreds of alloys is a few colonies asap, and I know where to expand with one science ship just fine - to where colonizable planets are.

You don't in an unexplored universe. You cannot know, unless you cheat.
And again, few hundred alloys you can get with trade. Losing empire-wide modifiers or the digsites weights much more.

Not to mention that you can get alloy deposits as well from anomalies (sometimes) or ships so that alloy argument is flawed at best.

And again, to underline my point: anomalies are not infinite. You can get each once, and if you don't get it first, someone else can get it. Which means, if your two science ships cannot get the good anomalies, you just wasted a ton of long term potential to the other players. Congratz.

[HyperKnight]

I shall ask you: how can anyone get anomalies inside my closed borders which I got instead of wasting alloys on the science ships?

[Zane87]

Originally posted by HyperKnight:

I shall ask you: how can anyone get anomalies inside my closed borders which I got instead of wasting alloys on the science ships?

Because random anomalies are not spawned at galaxy creation. Everytime you survey anything, an anomaly can spawn (some have other prerequisites but that is the gist).
But no anomaly that has spawned anywhere in the universe can spawn a second time (except the terraform candidate ones).

If you have 100 systems in your space that are not surveyed, and no one except you can access them, and you wait 100 years, the only anomalies you are very likely to get are the ones tied to special systems or terraform candidate.
Because all other, finite, anomalies already have been found by others.

If you have only 2 survey ships, your chance of finding good anomalies first is greatly, greatly diminished.

[HyperKnight]

Didn't knew it, thank you.

Well to make long short, you risk getting roflstomped by some REALLY warlike neighbour and forfeit early colonization for gambling on good anomalies.

"Great tacticians learn that consistency often trumps potential" another irrelevant quote - can you tell from where?

[zacharyb]

Originally posted by HyperKnight:

Didn't knew it, thank you.

Well to make long short, you risk getting roflstomped by some REALLY warlike neighbour and forfeit early colonization for gambling on good anomalies.

"Great tacticians learn that consistency often trumps potential" another irrelevant quote - can you tell from where?

That's why you send an envoy and bribe them with trade deals, in most cases you can usually pacify your neighbors.

[HyperKnight]

I had a game with TWO Determined Exterminators running amok right next to me gobbling up my neighbours left and right, but not me - because I put my alloys in economy and fleet.