Italian Localization forbidden

[PROMETHEUS]

Seems to be forbidden on Paradox as people are getting banned on their mainforums for asking a Localized version of their games in Italian.
Its particularly disappointing because they are silencing community of people that love their games and would like to play it in their motherlanguage as Polish , portuguese despite Italian has a wider audience and game income by sales as a country.

[Seaghauwn]

I have seen threads like this even on other paradox games, its not forbidden if anything it's just been asked and answered alot of times and the answer is usually; it costs more than what the return is and looking at it from a business perspective it would make sense.

This is from the paradox forums;

Look at it like this, there may be 90 million Italian speakers but if only 10000 (taking a stab in the dark here) of them buy the game and actually play in Italian, it's not worth the time or money invested. Another thing to remember is that just because a game is translated more players may not actually use the translation (speaking for personal experience I never play games in anything but English even if Swedish is available).

[PROMETHEUS]

This is false.

1 A lot of Italian buy the game on discount sites like Kinguin and it appears they buy as Polish while are actually Italians buying
2 A lot of Italians do not buy the game because is not translated.
3 Italian is the 2nd most spoken language in Europe with French ( English is no more an European language )
4 other countries has law that force localization like in France or Poland
5 there are modders that do translate for fun and aren't paid anything.

So the its just a blatant excuse from Paradox to not translate the game in Italian !
And it feels insulting at this point to read their success post where they claim to have gained new money from multiple game ventures and not spent a cent for the Italian Localization when they could even just hire the modder that did it !

At this point Paradox behaviour to me feels directly targetted against Italian people by avoiding the translations on purpouse!

[galadon3]

Originally posted by PROMETHEUS:

This is false.
3 Italian is the 2nd most spoken language in Europe with French ( English is no more an European language )

Funny, when where the british isles actually teleported away from the European Continent? England leaving the EU doesnt mean its not part of EUROPE anymore.
And I guess while you were at it you just excluded Germany from Europe too...

[Oobaneko]

It will have much more effective if there will be initiative group among Italian fans that will translate game, check it for grammar, and send Paradox. Professional translation takes a lot of money, ya know.

[Seaghauwn]

Originally posted by PROMETHEUS:

1 A lot of Italian buy the game on discount sites like Kinguin and it appears they buy as Polish while are actually Italians buying
2 A lot of Italians do not buy the game because is not translated.
3 Italian is the 2nd most spoken language in Europe with French ( English is no more an European language )
4 other countries has law that force localization like in France or Poland
5 there are modders that do translate for fun and aren't paid anything.

1. the burden of proof is on you mate.
2. again the burden of proof is on you
3. clearly you didn't research that.
4. proof is on you again it wouldn't matter anyways because its not italy.
5. okay ask a modder or better yet do it yourself.

Originally posted by PROMETHEUS:

At this point Paradox behaviour to me feels directly targetted against Italian people by avoiding the translations on purpouse!

it seems like you don't get it anyways.

[Azrael]

Dude, instead of opening a rant thread you could've looked in the Workshop.

I literally just typed in Italian and found this:

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1730182270&searchtext=Italian

[Realm Walker]

Originally posted by PROMETHEUS:

This is false.

1 A lot of Italian buy the game on discount sites like Kinguin and it appears they buy as Polish while are actually Italians buying
2 A lot of Italians do not buy the game because is not translated.
3 Italian is the 2nd most spoken language in Europe with French ( English is no more an European language )
4 other countries has law that force localization like in France or Poland
5 there are modders that do translate for fun and aren't paid anything.

So the its just a blatant excuse from Paradox to not translate the game in Italian !
And it feels insulting at this point to read their success post where they claim to have gained new money from multiple game ventures and not spent a cent for the Italian Localization when they could even just hire the modder that did it !

At this point Paradox behaviour to me feels directly targetted against Italian people by avoiding the translations on purpouse!

-English is an european language. What are you basing this argument on? Yes there was the Brexit, but in which way is language influenced by this? English is the most inportant language in the european union not because of the number primary english speakers but because communications on both international level and between groups of different languages is conducted in english. Most people are capable of understanding english. So it makes sense to first create an english localisation so that nearly everyone can understand the game. Yes, looking to the ratios of group sizes of primary language speakers, english is rather a minority in europe. But creating a game in an english localisation covers a larger group of people than only applying for example a french or spanish localisation.
-What nonsense of unlogical discriminatory feelings is that? They explained their decision to not create an italian translation. A corporate spending money on everything the community asks for is not survivable. An italian localisation is included in the list of those community demands, but there are a lot more languages in the same or worse position.
- The states with the localisation enforcement laws you mentioned are more valuable target markets for paradox than italia.
- The business paradox (and the people in charge) are free to translate their games in any way they wish by international law.
- Where are the (proofen) statistics that the italian speaking group is a market worth it to acces even more by using an italian translation of the game?
-Be carefully with your arguments. Only if they are of certain logical resistance and of enough precision to the theme (and not just to increase the quantity of your arguments), are they capable of performing the impact you wish for.

[PROMETHEUS]

Originally posted by 18tesAzrael:

Dude, instead of opening a rant thread you could've looked in the Workshop.

I literally just typed in Italian and found this:

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1730182270&searchtext=Italian

Boy localizations break achievements.

[PROMETHEUS]

Originally posted by Crunch:

Originally posted by PROMETHEUS:

This is false.

1 A lot of Italian buy the game on discount sites like Kinguin and it appears they buy as Polish while are actually Italians buying
2 A lot of Italians do not buy the game because is not translated.
3 Italian is the 2nd most spoken language in Europe with French ( English is no more an European language )
4 other countries has law that force localization like in France or Poland
5 there are modders that do translate for fun and aren't paid anything.

So the its just a blatant excuse from Paradox to not translate the game in Italian !
And it feels insulting at this point to read their success post where they claim to have gained new money from multiple game ventures and not spent a cent for the Italian Localization when they could even just hire the modder that did it !

At this point Paradox behaviour to me feels directly targetted against Italian people by avoiding the translations on purpouse!

-English is an european language. What are you basing this argument on? Yes there was the Brexit, but in which way is language influenced by this? English is the most inportant language in the european union not because of the number primary english speakers but because communications on both international level and between groups of different languages is conducted in english. Most people are capable of understanding english. So it makes sense to first create an english localisation so that nearly everyone can understand the game. Yes, looking to the ratios of group sizes of primary language speakers, english is rather a minority in europe. But creating a game in an english localisation covers a larger group of people than only applying for example a french or spanish localisation.
-What nonsense of unlogical discriminatory feelings is that? They explained their decision to not create an italian translation. A corporate spending money on everything the community asks for is not survivable. An italian localisation is included in the list of those community demands, but there are a lot more languages in the same or worse position.
- The states with the localisation enforcement laws you mentioned are more valuable target markets for paradox than italia.
- The business paradox (and the people in charge) are free to translate their games in any way they wish by international law.
- Where are the (proofen) statistics that the italian speaking group is a market worth it to acces even more by using an italian translation of the game?
-Be carefully with your arguments. Only if they are of certain logical resistance and of enough precision to the theme (and not just to increase the quantity of your arguments), are they capable of performing the impact you wish for.

Do a simple google search and you can find plenty of statistics.
Beeing lazy is not an excuse.

As for the Paradox clearly avoiding the localization it definetly appears as a discrimination , since other countries are getting localization that have way less speakers or gamers than Italy.

https://newzoo.com/insights/infographics/italy-games-market-2018/

[galadon3]

Originally posted by PROMETHEUS:

Do a simple google search and you can find plenty of statistics.

You mean like those making very clear that your claim of italian being the 2nd most spoken european language is nonsense?

Beeing lazy is not an excuse.

well good you realize that

[I]

I personally play Stellaris in English because every information you google about the game is written in english, every guide, every mod etc.

As to "italian is the 2nd most spoken language in Europe" :
That seems to be wrong. Italian is ranking #5 in that matter:

Name	Speakers in Europe	
	Native	Total
English	63,000,000	260,000,000
German	97,000,000	170,000,000
Russian	106,000,000	160,000,000
French	71,500,000	135,000,000
Italian	65,000,000	82,000,000
Spanish (Castilian)	38,000,000	76,000,000
Romanian	24,000,000	28,000,000
Swedish	11,100,000	13,280,000

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Languages_of_Europe

[Zane87]

Funny that OP claims stuff without delivering any proof to his claims, yet blames others for being lazy. The burden of proof is on those who claim stuff. OP, I am afraid you are the lazy one here.

Also, just a few remarks on top of what most others already said:
It is hard to estimate how many italians would buy the game if it has a proper localisation. You certainly can't estimate it OP and emptyly claiming "a lot of" is just not good enough for a company

One can expect PDX, as the company that tries to maximize their revenue, has made that calculation already, and the result is why there is no italian localisation. There statement underlines that. How a simple user who likely never worked in market research assumes he could estimate that better than the company whose revenues are directly affected though is beyond me. Dunning Kruger par excellence...

Modders doing things for fun doesn't mean a company will do a similar thing. They have to pay translators and have to maintain future localisation as well and in good quality, which is a lot more commitment than what modders usually do

Source for your claim that France and Poland force game devs to localize their games?

Using grey market resellers as an argument for your claims is.... ugh that one is just ridiculously stupid. Also labeling them as "discount sites" while they are simply unapproved resellers that make their money with mostly illegal means is a huge stretch


And finally deducing that the lack of localisation is a direct attack on beautiful Italy is just as much of a stretch. I do get your frustration OP but boi tune down your conspiracy a bit. The only reason why there is no localisation is because the marginal revenue does not outweigh the marginal cost of such a localisation. Nothing else.

[Azrael]

Originally posted by PROMETHEUS:

Originally posted by 18tesAzrael:

Dude, instead of opening a rant thread you could've looked in the Workshop.

I literally just typed in Italian and found this:

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1730182270&searchtext=Italian

Boy localizations break achievements.

There are ways around that.

[MOSQUITO BURGERS]

I think having localization/language options is only a benefit to your work. It should never even be about the money, especially not when you're already as big and rich as Paradox. One example of localization being super well done are the Metro games by 4K. They have audio/subtitle language options up the whazoo, and honestly I really appreciate that because I know what it means to immersion to have your own native tongue or a narratively-relevant language in there instead of just English with subs all the time. And frankly even on the point of sales, it's a very narrow minded and "shareholder pleasing" mindset to say the costs outweigh the sales. This kind of thing should be seen like a long term investment, and the returns grow over time because you've expanded the reach of your product. You can't expect immediate results in the next fiscal quarter. This is the type of maneuver that fosters good word of mouth and international praise. It's not something that happens overnight, and corporate attitudes will never get that. I think it would be a great PR move for Paradox and would also be financially worthwhile to them in the end to add more language settings, for sure.

[galadon3]

Originally posted by MOSQUITO BURGERS:

I think having localization/language options is only a benefit to your work. It should never even be about the money, especially not when you're already as big and rich as Paradox. One example of localization being super well done are the Metro games by 4K. They have audio/subtitle language options up the whazoo, and honestly I really appreciate that because I know what it means to immersion to have your own native tongue or a narratively-relevant language in there instead of just English with subs all the time. And frankly even on the point of sales, it's a very narrow minded and "shareholder pleasing" mindset to say the costs outweigh the sales. This kind of thing should be seen like a long term investment, and the returns grow over time because you've expanded the reach of your product. You can't expect immediate results in the next fiscal quarter. This is the type of maneuver that fosters good word of mouth and international praise. It's not something that happens overnight, and corporate attitudes will never get that. I think it would be a great PR move for Paradox and would also be financially worthwhile to them in the end to add more language settings, for sure.

Oh the point is way less the question of would it be nice or not, the point most ppl have a bigger problem with in OPs statement are that apparently he thinks its a direct attack on italy, while himself declaring english a non-european language and obviously applying pretty weird mathematics to declare italian the 2nd most spoken language in europe.

And well the point is that you will see less localization for countries where english is often a mandatory 2nd language in schools and were ppl actually have good skills in english. Because for the profit you get from a market the question is not:
"How many ppl who are potential buyers of our game speak [language]" but
"How many ppl would ONLY buy it if it was in their native language"

So you might sometimes see localizations for languages that are less spoken but where the number of people speaking english as a second language is smaller.

And as a non-native english-speaker I can tell you that pretty much every game I own that is originally english, IS installed in english even if its translated, since I am often not very happy with the translations and foremost, it makes communicating about the games and game-concepts WAY EASIER if you actually use the english terms.