What does overwhelming mean exactly?

[Emperor Cheesius Secundus]

I'm asking because I have a fanatical purifier near my borders (not on it, but about 5 systems away with a rump state (google it) between me and them). Their fleet is considered overwhelming and I want to know If a heavily fortified star fort (tier above the first star hold) and my fleet could stop them. In short, how much better than me are they to be labeled overwhelming?

[Combat Wombat]

stations aren't enough to stop anything ever, they buy you another 30 days or a good place to make a stand with your fleet. If that FP attacks you will lose unless you are able to massively increase your fleet size

[tempest.of.emptiness]

Originally posted by Emperor Cheesius Secundus:

What does overwhelming mean exactly?

There is no exact meaning of "overwhelming" in this context. According to the wiki ( https://stellaris.paradoxwikis.com/Empire#Relative_power ), "overwhelming" fleet power means that their fleet power is at least 2.5x yours. That gives you the minimum threshold, but there is no maximum threshold, which means that if their fleet power was a million times yours they would still just be "overwhelming". So trying to use that alone to gauge whether your starbase can stop their fleet is impossible.

You'll need to try to scout out their fleet to see what kind of numbers they have and then compare that to the fleet power of your starbase.

Originally posted by Combat Wombat:

stations aren't enough to stop anything ever

That's just not true. I routinely stop enemy aggression in its tracks with bastions that are capable of defeating my potential rival's entire navy. This requires that your science output keeps your starbase techs ahead of the enemy's ship techs, and that you invest in good defense platforms, but it can be done. Naturally, if you are behind in tech then you'll need ships to reinforce the bastions when they come under attack.

[Kitten Food]

Originally posted by Combat Wombat:

stations aren't enough to stop anything ever, they buy you another 30 days or a good place to make a stand with your fleet. If that FP attacks you will lose unless you are able to massively increase your fleet size

Entirely false.

An experienced player knows how to exploit choke points and create death fortresses. This only get stronger as you tech up. 1 fortress can be more powerful than most AI fleets way until the very late game when 100k+ fleets are the norm.

[Wilson]

Originally posted by tempest.of.emptiness:

Originally posted by Combat Wombat:

stations aren't enough to stop anything ever

That's just not true. I routinely stop enemy aggression in its tracks with bastions that are capable of defeating my potential rival's entire navy.

I used to use a citadel and stack it with 26 platforms w/ the supercomputer for the khan. It worked wonderfully until he started bum rushing them with every fleet he had every game. Still make them in the off chance i can get my fleet to it to support it.

In any case bastions with no platforms work early game when you want the regular AI to leave you alone for a little while. Just don't waste alloys on platforms for them. Once their fleets get past 30k and sometimes even before that they become useless. At least in my experience

[xycotta]

I have used stations and a fleet to stop numerous higher powered fleets on a normal basis

[tempest.of.emptiness]

Originally posted by Wilson:

I used to use a citadel and stack it with 26 platforms w/ the supercomputer for the khan. It worked wonderfully until he started bum rushing them with every fleet he had every game. Still make them in the off chance i can get my fleet to it to support it.

I'm not sure anything will stop the Khan; even if you do the alloy cost is just a waste. I usually just disable the marauders, but if I don't then I always surrender to the Khan immediately.

Originally posted by Wilson:

Once their fleets get past 30k and sometimes even before that they become useless. At least in my experience

That's absolutely true. Eventually fleet development will outpace starbase development. I try to have gateways set up by that point, or as soon as possible after, so that a fleet can instantly support any starbase that is attacked.

[Wilson]

Originally posted by tempest.of.emptiness:

but if I don't then I always surrender to the Khan immediately.

Can't say i blame you, though i almost never do. I was actually going to in a game that literally ended an hour ago because of him simply because i had no bastions for him. But alas i remembered i couldn't. So i just watched him and his ten stacks of fleets blow away my 50k fleet & wii little ( trading ) star fortress in five seconds flat. ( Thanks for spawning the exact day you were allowed too khan )

Originally posted by tempest.of.emptiness:

I'm not sure anything will stop the Khan; even if you do the alloy cost is just a waste.

It's easy enough as long as you can get two good fleets and buy enough time to specifically target him. A citadel bastion w/long range platforms makes it so much easier as well. Stick kinetic artillery on them and watch his fleets melt before they even enter the range of yours.

But it comes down to personnel preference i guess. Doesn't matter what kind've empire i play as i don't see them becoming the subject and fighting force of a bully. So at the very least try to fight, and if your fleet gets wiped out it doesn't really matter. Become his subject, and rebuild it while you have his protection.

EDIT: As for the cost i forgot about, it pays for itself through glorious victory. Whatca spending all those alloys on anyway?

[Combat Wombat]

Originally posted by Kitten Food:

Originally posted by Combat Wombat:

stations aren't enough to stop anything ever, they buy you another 30 days or a good place to make a stand with your fleet. If that FP attacks you will lose unless you are able to massively increase your fleet size

Entirely false.

An experienced player knows how to exploit choke points and create death fortresses. This only get stronger as you tech up. 1 fortress can be more powerful than most AI fleets way until the very late game when 100k+ fleets are the norm.

Maybe if you are playing some on low difficulty. An experienced player knows fleets are the only thing that win wars.

[tempest.of.emptiness]

Originally posted by Wilson:

EDIT: As for the cost i forgot about, it pays for itself through glorious victory. Whatca spending all those alloys on anyway?

Building up a large fleet to win my freedom after the Khan dies.

[Kapika96]

Originally posted by tempest.of.emptiness:

Originally posted by Wilson:

EDIT: As for the cost i forgot about, it pays for itself through glorious victory. Whatca spending all those alloys on anyway?

Building up a large fleet to win my freedom after the Khan dies.

You may not need to. Last time I surrendered to the Khan I gained freedom automatically when he died. No needing to fight for it.

[fmalfeas]

All this is examples of why I play tech-heavy. If I make it past the very, very, VERY early game, I become worse than an Awakened Empire.

And yes, platforms are key to defensive stations. I like to mix platform types. Mostly a split between missile and fighters, but with a couple heavy direct-fire platforms thrown in as a rude surprise to mess up the PD heavy fleets that will come. Obviously, lots of PD on them so that fighters and missiles can't be used to kill it all from safety.

I'm also prone to parking a mediocre fleet on each chokepoint base. Those fleets are made of ship designs that are specialized for fighting with station support and not really suited to being sent off to attack things. Their poor FTL drives let me stuff them full of the most advanced tech I have, so even their lower numbers compared to my real fleets are compensated for. (No, this doesn't mean my real fleets are lower tech than my garrisons, just that my real fleets likely have more armor and less shields, or other such measures to handle the power drain of all their systems. A low end FTL drive uses a lot less power than the high end ones, letting me flex the tech a bit more at the expense of interstellar mobility.)

[Drunk Demoman]

Originally posted by Kitten Food:

Originally posted by Combat Wombat:

stations aren't enough to stop anything ever, they buy you another 30 days or a good place to make a stand with your fleet. If that FP attacks you will lose unless you are able to massively increase your fleet size

Entirely false.

An experienced player knows how to exploit choke points and create death fortresses. This only get stronger as you tech up. 1 fortress can be more powerful than most AI fleets way until the very late game when 100k+ fleets are the norm.

*Laughs in repeatable defense platform techs and 500k citadels*

[Duke Darkwood]

Originally posted by tempest.of.emptiness:

Originally posted by Emperor Cheesius Secundus:

What does overwhelming mean exactly?

There is no exact meaning of "overwhelming" in this context. According to the wiki ( https://stellaris.paradoxwikis.com/Empire#Relative_power ), "overwhelming" fleet power means that their fleet power is at least 2.5x yours. That gives you the minimum threshold, but there is no maximum threshold, which means that if their fleet power was a million times yours they would still just be "overwhelming".

This is the important thing to note. But also, keep an eye on that rating. As you build up your fleets, the relative power may change. Get enough fleets, faster than they do, and it won't be "Overwhelming" anymore.

[Laigon ♥]

Choke point stations are OP. I've had games where the AI won't even attack you because it doesn't think it can get past a choke.

[Drunk Demoman]

Originally posted by Laigon ♥:

Choke point stations are OP. I've had games where the AI won't even attack you because it doesn't think it can get past a choke.

If only there were a mechanism in the game of some sort where you could jump into any system in a radius. Oh well.