Can u explain me why collectivist are slavers?

[Zershon]

Can u explain me why collectivist empires are slavers?

[Regergek]

Because they'll do anything for the collective good, that includes slavery

[Helican]

For the sake of god, please don't argue if this fits your view of certain ideologies.

[gregoryk64]

Originally posted by Gadnuk, Breaker of Worlds:

Because they'll do anything for the collective good, that includes slavery

Good point, especially when considering that the "collective good" in game terms can mean increasing mineral and food output via slavery. Or consider the Borg in Star Trek, which is probably one of the most extreme examples of collectivism in sicence fiction.

[Exarch_Alpha]

It´s not slavery in the human sense of the word. That´s the short version. Think of it rather as a North Korea kind of government where people are told what to do, learn it and do it their whole lives without complaining.

For the long versions you can look in the official forums.

[kilen]

Gov ethics work by opposition in Stellaris.

Think Collectivism assume slavery simply coz its opposit view of individualism.
Individualism valorize individual intrests & individual perspectives.
Wich cause a reject of slavery obviously...
And so, in opposition, the collective intrest means health or livestyle or individual freedom are denied for the group's intrest and the global purpose.

Its very sensed, as they thought the ethics (with 4 main balances/opposed philosophies) then slavery is linked with collectivism.

But we still can argue about an option to include more: may should they have added the possibility to be collectivist without embrace slavery ?
I suppose yes...
But even without, it stay sensed as it is (y)

Or use mods aiming more ethics, there are.
Its an option if u prefer...
++

[NixBoxDone]

Slavery is actually a good alternative for jail time, if regulated. Where is the good to the whole in stuffing someone in a cell, guarded by professionals, to do nothing for years while getting fed three times a day - all of it paid, in part, by friends and family of their victims?

What if, instead, the offenders for smaller crimes (such as theft, scamming, burglary, etc. tt.) were to be sentenced to forced labour as a bonded servant until the damage both emotional and financial is repaid?

Worse crimes could be punished by more hazardous work in mines/on asteroids so that law abiding citizens wouldn't have to - or you could puss out and put them in jail if that feels too hardcore.

All of this would actually benefit the people who were harmed and would in many cases be better for the criminals as well, as many view being stuffed in a small cement box to do nothing a kind of torture.

You could even give them the chance to qualify in whatever work they do - once they get released, they'll be used to working for a living, have some new qualifications and be in the system, making repeat offenses less likely.

(slave soldiers might be a different thing, but you don't need to use them :P)

[adobo]

Slavery is a way for control. Especially for the good for nothing aliens who don't want to work for the greater good.

[kilen]

Originally posted by majikero:

Slavery is a way for control. Especially for the good for nothing aliens who don't want to work for the greater good.

Slavery should be one of best ethics to play for me (about immersive tale and ways to act if u are more "an agressive player")...
Unfortunatly, the bug in sectors (impossible for AI sectors to know wich ones must be enslaved or not) make it totally unefficient and even absurd soon as u are a slaver.

And like sectors are essential and a deep aspect of the game (i like them ...or i should IF !), slavers/collectivism are the worst ethic to play.

Soooo.... :/ :(
(quite sad & frustrating)
But i still hope one of next updates will rule that too without need mods. (?)
++

[Exarch_Alpha]

Then don´t play collectivist. Problem solved.

Paradox WANTS for different ethos to FEEL different. And they are damn right.

The only issue is how to handle slaves in sectors. Period.

[kilen]

Originally posted by Exarch_Alpha:

Then don´t play collectivist. Problem solved.

Paradox WANTS for different ethos to FEEL different. And they are damn right.

The only issue is how to handle slaves in sectors. Period.

o.O
Thats what i do of course, but that doesnt mean the issue is solved, at the contrary (!). ^^

[Apeironic_Entelechy]

As others have said Slavery for Collectivists is not American style chattel slavery where people are bought and sold on an open market, rather it is more like North Korean work camps style slavery. You may be interested to know but Paradox plans to stop associating collectivism with slavery, not sure what bonuses they'll replace it with but we'll see.

[gregoryk64]

Originally posted by kilen:

Gov ethics work by opposition in Stellaris.

Think Collectivism assume slavery simply coz its opposit view of individualism.
Individualism valorize individual intrests & individual perspectives.
Wich cause a reject of slavery obviously...
And so, in opposition, the collective intrest means health or livestyle or individual freedom are denied for the group's intrest and the global purpose.

Its very sensed, as they thought the ethics (with 4 main balances/opposed philosophies) then slavery is linked with collectivism.

But we still can argue about an option to include more: may should they have added the possibility to be collectivist without embrace slavery ?
I suppose yes...
But even without, it stay sensed as it is (y)

Or use mods aiming more ethics, there are.
Its an option if u prefer...
++

I've always thought that the combination of empire ethics should influence slavery tolerance and perhaps it does, as I've not really experimented with it that much. Take for instance a fanatic xenophobe/individualist. As you point out, the individualist trait would likely rule out slavery in the empire, but would it be acceptable if the policy was to enslave xenos only as they have an intense fear/hatred of other species?

Slavery is an option I find interesting to play as it does add an extra level of faction management in the empire. But as pointed out earlier in the thread it is completely broken when it comes to sectors so I tend to avoid it at least until the devs improve sector AI.

[DeadlyDanDaMan]

Originally posted by PonySlaystation:

Slavery is actually a good alternative for jail time, if regulated. Where is the good to the whole in stuffing someone in a cell, guarded by professionals, to do nothing for years while getting fed three times a day - all of it paid, in part, by friends and family of their victims?

What if, instead, the offenders for smaller crimes (such as theft, scamming, burglary, etc. tt.) were to be sentenced to forced labour as a bonded servant until the damage both emotional and financial is repaid?

Worse crimes could be punished by more hazardous work in mines/on asteroids so that law abiding citizens wouldn't have to - or you could puss out and put them in jail if that feels too hardcore.

All of this would actually benefit the people who were harmed and would in many cases be better for the criminals as well, as many view being stuffed in a small cement box to do nothing a kind of torture.

You could even give them the chance to qualify in whatever work they do - once they get released, they'll be used to working for a living, have some new qualifications and be in the system, making repeat offenses less likely.

(slave soldiers might be a different thing, but you don't need to use them :P)

Dude, that's NOT the kind of slavery that Stellaris is talking about. The slavery in Stellaris is actually forced assimilation, not traditional slavery.

And your views on slavery are disgusting by the way....what you described is EXACTLY what Hitler did, concentration camps.

[adobo]

Originally posted by DeadlyDanDaMan:

Dude, that's NOT the kind of slavery that Stellaris is talking about. The slavery in Stellaris is actually forced assimilation, not traditional slavery.

And your views on slavery are disgusting by the way....what you described is EXACTLY what Hitler did, concentration camps.

That depends on which slavery you have if its regulated or the "work to the bone" kind of slavery. You can also work them to the bone while purging them one by one, Hitler style.

I myself prefer to just outright purge them all or enslave them till they drift closer to my ethos and purge the rest.

[NixBoxDone]

Originally posted by DeadlyDanDaMan:

Originally posted by PonySlaystation:

Slavery is actually a good alternative for jail time, if regulated. Where is the good to the whole in stuffing someone in a cell, guarded by professionals, to do nothing for years while getting fed three times a day - all of it paid, in part, by friends and family of their victims?

What if, instead, the offenders for smaller crimes (such as theft, scamming, burglary, etc. tt.) were to be sentenced to forced labour as a bonded servant until the damage both emotional and financial is repaid?

Worse crimes could be punished by more hazardous work in mines/on asteroids so that law abiding citizens wouldn't have to - or you could puss out and put them in jail if that feels too hardcore.

All of this would actually benefit the people who were harmed and would in many cases be better for the criminals as well, as many view being stuffed in a small cement box to do nothing a kind of torture.

You could even give them the chance to qualify in whatever work they do - once they get released, they'll be used to working for a living, have some new qualifications and be in the system, making repeat offenses less likely.

(slave soldiers might be a different thing, but you don't need to use them :P)

Dude, that's NOT the kind of slavery that Stellaris is talking about. The slavery in Stellaris is actually forced assimilation, not traditional slavery.

And your views on slavery are disgusting by the way....what you described is EXACTLY what Hitler did, concentration camps.

Huh, you do realize we are talking about collectivist justification for slavery, right?

Not, like, actual "happening here right now" slavery? I thought that was clear from the topic, but seeing as you got all butt hurt over it, I thought it may bear repeating.

OP asked why collectivists would or should use slaves, so I provided a view point from which it would make sense. We're basically all individualist, on some level, so of course it sounds disgusting. Use your brain a little.