How do ya'll get a good economy running?

[Cyber_Wizard]

I always feel left in the dust when fighting the AI. They seem to outpace me in ships and resources. Even after unlocking mega alloy.

Should I be investing more in planets? I got about 7 but still not producing enough.

[Markus Reese]

What is your difficulty setting? Difficulty in stellaris is one thing. Giving AI Free bonuses on everything above second from most easiest. So economy is difficult, especially early on for higher levels than AI because they legit just start and have more.

I really recommend scaling difficulty on. This means at start, AI is on par with you and as you level, their inefficiencies are balanced to your skill as the difficulty bonuses apply to full bonus at endgame date.

As for how I get my economy? I try to ensure I have the planets specialized to get the most from manually designating planet types. Balance sprawl with admin growth.

Big tip? Do not build every mineral or science research station you see. It takes same energy for a two mineral mining station as a 12 mineral. Same with research. Build the little ones after your energy ramps up more.

[Cyber_Wizard]

Originally posted by twistedmelon:

What is your difficulty setting? Difficulty in stellaris is one thing. Giving AI Free bonuses on everything above second from most easiest. So economy is difficult, especially early on for higher levels than AI because they legit just start and have more.

I really recommend scaling difficulty on. This means at start, AI is on par with you and as you level, their inefficiencies are balanced to your skill as the difficulty bonuses apply to full bonus at endgame date.

As for how I get my economy? I try to ensure I have the planets specialized to get the most from manually designating planet types. Balance sprawl with admin growth.

Big tip? Do not build every mineral or science research station you see. It takes same energy for a two mineral mining station as a 12 mineral. Same with research. Build the little ones after your energy ramps up more.

Think captain (normal?) And that's what scaling does? I been just avoiding that setting, since I have no idea what effect it does.

[bea.hirtes]

Scaling is a multiplyer, x0 in 2200 x1 in the endgame year, for the difficulty-boni. If you use scaling, you should even raise the values for "grand admiral" (moding it)

[Nightmyre]

Scaling makes the bonuses that the AI gets due to difficulty level take some time before they become fully active.

For your original question - it's a pretty broad one, but generally speaking, try to follow these rules, in descending order of priority, for what to do on a planet

1) Do you have available jobs and housing? If so, do nothing.
2) Do you have zero available housing? If so, build an urban district. Otherwise, never build urban districts.
3) Do you have zero available jobs, but have a building slot open? If so, build something in that building slot, otherwise, generally, don't build unless you've got a surplus of resources.
4) Do you have zero available jobs and have no building slots open? If so, build an energy/mineral/farming district, depending on what resources your economy needs. Otherwise, generally, don't build a district unless you've got a surplus of resources.
5) Do you have zero available jobs, have no building slots open, and have no districts available? Do you have other planets that have any of the above? If so, move your soon-to-be-unemployed pop to one of those other planets.

NEVER upgrade a building to the point where it requires rare resources, unless you absolutely have no other option. It is never worth it, when you can just move the pop to another planet and fill the job there instead.

[Markus Reese]

I gotta counter on that point. Refinery worlds are awesome! One rare resource does the work of multiple lower tier versions. A refinery only takes one person and provides multiple tech. So example. An alloy focus planet with max upgrades and secondary refinery planet (which normally can support a few planets) will do much more at less sprawl than just two base level alloy.

I will try to screenshot, but another example is I have a resort planet that is an economic powerhouse for its size. Only doable with paradise domes. But the trade and resort planet benefit more than makes up for the few pops in a refinery with the majority of the planet working in commerce because of the low pop needs of the refineries.

Then get into ringworld and ecumenopolis? Nah. Refineries are awesome. 100 population the everything. I have one species which is capable of running every planet as an Ecumenopolis with just support habitats for supply. (and livestock for the noms...) ((It is a broken way too op empire))

[Nightmyre]

Originally posted by twistedmelon:

I gotta counter on that point. Refinery worlds are awesome! One rare resource does the work of multiple lower tier versions. A refinery only takes one person and provides multiple tech. So example. An alloy focus planet with max upgrades and secondary refinery planet (which normally can support a few planets) will do much more at less sprawl than just two base level alloy.

I will try to screenshot, but another example is I have a resort planet that is an economic powerhouse for its size. Only doable with paradise domes. But the trade and resort planet benefit more than makes up for the few pops in a refinery with the majority of the planet working in commerce because of the low pop needs of the refineries.

Then get into ringworld and ecumenopolis? Nah. Refineries are awesome. 100 population the everything. I have one species which is capable of running every planet as an Ecumenopolis with just support habitats for supply. (and livestock for the noms...) ((It is a broken way too op empire))

I'm not sure if you're understanding my point. I'm not arguing that upgrading the buildings provides more jobs, and thus provides more resources.

My point is that you are pretty much never in a situation in which that's the optimal decision. Given the choice between upgrading a building and simply moving the pop to another planet, moving the pop is *always* the correct decision.

Why waste pops and building slots on rare resources, when you can get it for free instead?

And if you're going to suggest that your empire has no more planets which can supply basic jobs, either through unupgraded buildings or through districts, then my answer for you is simple - build habitats instead.

Habitats may not be as efficient as planets, but they are certainly more efficient than upgraded buildings. Your one-time cost of 3000 alloys translates into roughly 40 jobs, which can provide you with both basic resources as well as whatever else you want to use the buildings for.

[Cyber_Wizard]

O I see, I may have to change my pop stance. Since I still got my human playthrough, and they don't like the resettle stuff.

[Nightmyre]

Originally posted by Black ginger:

O I see, I may have to change my pop stance. Since I still got my human playthrough, and they don't like the resettle stuff.

As long as you're not fanatic egalitarian, you can enable resettlement, and you absolutely should. It is 100% worth it.

[Markus Reese]

My point was it doesnt waste building slots, it saves building slots :s

[Nightmyre]

Originally posted by twistedmelon:

My point was it doesnt waste building slots, it saves building slots :s

Only in the sense that you can pack more jobs onto one planet. But there is no actual reason to do that - there is no benefit to having 200 pops on one planet, instead of 100 pops on two planets.

If there were a shortage of planets / places to build - sure. But there isn't. Even once you run out of planets with spots to build on, you can develop almost infinitely through habitats.

[Malaficus Shaikan]

I find it heavly depends on your nation.
For example Slaver nations have an easier time as slave's are dirt cheap in upkeep and have a massive income boost from the start.
Where tech rush nations tent to be expensive as hell.

As a general rule:
Keep jobs around the amount of pops you have.
Aka only build new jobs when you get unemployment.

Also keep in mind that planets are investments.
They will pay off but the first few years they are a drain on your economy(Not as much as they used to but still a planet will need atleast 5 pop before it is worh a damm. Relocating pop to new worlds in a common tatic)

[corisai]

Originally posted by Nightmyre:

If there were a shortage of planets / places to build - sure. But there isn't. Even once you run out of planets with spots to build on, you can develop almost infinitely through habitats.

It cost you most precious resource - your own personal time.

Plus for several types of planet (research, trade, industry/alloys) you want to get 40 pops ASAP.

While rare resources cost nothing since mid-game as you're swimming in them.

Still your suggestion is a nice one for early game.

[Markus Reese]

Originally posted by Nightmyre:

Originally posted by twistedmelon:

My point was it doesnt waste building slots, it saves building slots :s

Only in the sense that you can pack more jobs onto one planet. But there is no actual reason to do that - there is no benefit to having 200 pops on one planet, instead of 100 pops on two planets.

If there were a shortage of planets / places to build - sure. But there isn't. Even once you run out of planets with spots to build on, you can develop almost infinitely through habitats.

200 pops? There is. On trade planets. Especially late game. My +80 pop resort planet is an economic powerhouse, only thanks to upgrades. Upgrades mean every planet is just a beast of output. Even the refinery ones because the refineries are low employing means a majority of the pop can do other work, a fair tradeoff considering those workslots are now also upgraded. The upgrades meaning that planet is still more powerful than if zero refineries and the entire thing was the same but unupgraded.

There is benefit though. If you got ten planets developing with one or two of them a refinery, then you can optimize each planet more making it bigger meaning it keeps growing longer and if they grow larger and longer, you can expand faster and your expansions have more value.

Now if you are talking post end game after you have won, then... eh. Is irrelevant come that point. But pre end game where space is finite still depending on play, then having every planet strong is necessary. Three planets of mediocre pop size pumping out allies, or three full +80 pop planets with one mega research and the other more alloys than example A just because third planet is a refinery which is conveniently also pumping out tons of trade because of the spare workforce since refineries take so little.

Or as with habitats. One habitat at a colonized planet can produce enough refined good to max out that planet easily. That difference far offsetting if the planet was just base buildings.

I dont know why anybody wouldnt upgrade. I cannot think of a reason not to other than not wanting to spend one tile so you can make one tile do the work of four.

[Cyber_Wizard]

Damn good tips, I can see where, I been messing up on. I kept rushing on buildings rather then on the power/ore/food resulting in....strange economy. However, at least my paper world is booming :)

[Cyber_Wizard]

Originally posted by Nightmyre:

Originally posted by twistedmelon:

I gotta counter on that point. Refinery worlds are awesome! One rare resource does the work of multiple lower tier versions. A refinery only takes one person and provides multiple tech. So example. An alloy focus planet with max upgrades and secondary refinery planet (which normally can support a few planets) will do much more at less sprawl than just two base level alloy.

I will try to screenshot, but another example is I have a resort planet that is an economic powerhouse for its size. Only doable with paradise domes. But the trade and resort planet benefit more than makes up for the few pops in a refinery with the majority of the planet working in commerce because of the low pop needs of the refineries.

Then get into ringworld and ecumenopolis? Nah. Refineries are awesome. 100 population the everything. I have one species which is capable of running every planet as an Ecumenopolis with just support habitats for supply. (and livestock for the noms...) ((It is a broken way too op empire))

I'm not sure if you're understanding my point. I'm not arguing that upgrading the buildings provides more jobs, and thus provides more resources.

My point is that you are pretty much never in a situation in which that's the optimal decision. Given the choice between upgrading a building and simply moving the pop to another planet, moving the pop is *always* the correct decision.

Why waste pops and building slots on rare resources, when you can get it for free instead?

And if you're going to suggest that your empire has no more planets which can supply basic jobs, either through unupgraded buildings or through districts, then my answer for you is simple - build habitats instead.

Habitats may not be as efficient as planets, but they are certainly more efficient than upgraded buildings. Your one-time cost of 3000 alloys translates into roughly 40 jobs, which can provide you with both basic resources as well as whatever else you want to use the buildings for.

That reminds me of age of empires, instead of always making new builders, just jump the workers to a new job where you lack resources.