tech tree questions

[silverhammer]

i am wondering what traits, and /or ethics would lead to boosts in physics,engginering and socioty. particulatly physics, id like to see how early it may be possiable to research arc emitters, which i no longer seem to ever be able to unlock in a typical multiplayer game before everyone quits. so if only one question, what is the best setup for physics research?

[Azunai]

probably intelligent natural physicists. materialist so you can pick science directorate (more choices -> better chance to get your specific techs)

militarist might also be useful (higher chance to get weapon techs).

you need plasma accelerators (or even plasma cannons? i think some of those dependencies were changed in 1.3) as prerequisite for arc emitters.

don't know if plasma weapons have a higher chance to pop up when you have the basic laser tech, but i think so. pretty sure they can also pop up if you start with kinetics (or missiles) but i think it's less likely.

[kilen]

In my xp all special techs arent linked with tech tree but with debris from ships or mysteries u meet around u.

It was also the case in Azimov, all "heavy/special" weapons i get were dispo for my ships by destruction of more advanced empires ships (i play insane/high only, wich has a direct positive impact in this case).

And now about Arc Emmiter in medium slot, i get it around 2240 by destroying Void Clouds and studied debris next.
Must study them next for x% still after, ofc, but the unlocking is the only important point... they dont cost hugely more than others techs.

Only case where tech tree is directly involved are for former azimov "Psyonic" techs (for troops but also for PsiBound, far best efficient hyperdrive of the game).
Now there are modif in Heinlein, no more need to study Sentient AI to reach psyonic techs next, i guess (or it was a modding modif, i am not sure i didnt xp that yet just seen on screenies)

But even without psyonic opportunities, for all others its debris of ships the first source, no doubt for me. (Y)
The 3 main weaponery choices at start arent linked with about concretly unlock advanced techs like Arc or Lances (its like for mining industry lasers: this one is weak compared with advanced weaponery but its also from debris u can get, etc)

++ :)

[Azunai]

the poster above is wrong.

the only weapon techs that aren't linked with the tech tree are the matter disintegrator (can only get it from unbidden debris) and the various creature weapons.

arc emitters are _definitely_ part of the tech tree. void cloud lightning weapon (M slot) has similar properties to the arc emitter, but the tech is not linked or related in any way.

arc emitters require plasma cannons. plasma cannons obviously require the lower tier versions (plasma thrower/accelerator) first. plasma throwers aren't directly linked to other techs, but their chance to pop up is reduced by 50% if you don't have the "red laser" tech (ie. the starting laser)

check the wiki (http://www.stellariswiki.com/Technology) . it's also linked in game ("help" button).

EDIT: i was wrong about the matter disintegrators, actually. they are a follow up tech of energy torpedoes. don't know if that's always been the case or was changed recently. always thought they only dropped from unbidden ships.

[kilen]

Originally posted by Azunai:

the poster above is wrong.

the only weapon techs that aren't linked with the tech tree are the matter disintegrator (can only get it from unbidden debris) and the various creature weapons.

arc emitters are _definitely_ part of the tech tree. void cloud lightning weapon (M slot) has similar properties to the arc emitter, but the tech is not linked or related in any way.

arc emitters require plasma cannons. plasma cannons obviously require the lower tier versions (plasma thrower/accelerator) first. plasma throwers aren't directly linked to other techs, but their chance to pop up is reduced by 50% if you don't have the "red laser" tech (ie. the starting laser)

check the wiki (http://www.stellariswiki.com/Technology) . it's also linked in game ("help" button).

EDIT: i was wrong about the matter disintegrators, actually. they are a follow up tech of energy torpedoes. don't know if that's always been the case or was changed recently. always thought they only dropped from unbidden ships.

No, no, absolutly not.
u dont need look screenies i have added this morning in my profile/stellaris list, they concern first part of 7thGen ships i made in my last campaign (corvs, DDs & supports)... u will see i already have Arc since i get from Void Clouds around 2240 and without any link with plasma actually (i only have lasers & missiles actually)

So thats best proove its not (Then Arc dont requires plasma).
And anyway it was already the case in Azimov.
All are linked with tech tree in the sens debris will unlock the option in new reasearchs to study, but not obviously with a weapon upstream.

Lasers are energy as plasma, in that sens they are linked But thats not a proove anymore.
in my previous Azimov campaign (u can find also conception plans showing it in my 700screenies but its more far and more long to find, its months ago now... lol :p), i had Kinethic/Missiles and i received Tachyon Lances II as first major weapon as i get it from AI fleets more advanced too...
I get plasma later, and only LaserGammaV in end-26th century, far later of Tachyon or Arc Emmiter wich i used there since +/-2350 or 2400, etc...

So no, sorry. :)
Or wiki is uncomplete or there are sub-laws more we didnt aimed yet but i swear u its possible, its flagrant in my xps (and i dont use mods, just all DLCs, so its not the reason anymore). (Y) :)

++

[kilen]

And concerning desintegrators i get it in azimov, not from Unbidden, but from a freed vassal from a FE empire (foccussing on sciences) I defeated earlier and at the moment i integrated the vassal (and get all his ships as free reward like for any integration of vassals).
U can find also a screenie about it: i test it with a corvette if i remember well, there was only an unique corvette from this vassal who get desintegrators.

Of course, here, no study of Desintegrator, i cant build it.
But if FE had it without being linked with Unbidden (never appeard in this Azimov campaign), it shows too there are exceptions here too about "exclusive Unbidden source" to have desintegrators...
Its quite different than previous debate and my first answer but seemed also intresting to tell u.

Anyway, i am on smartphone now, quite tough to use Steam app from it, soon as i open pc again i will check them and share them here, i will can find more easally than u in all my screenies... i will show u there (y) :)

++

[Azunai]

ok, i'll explain it one more time: that cloud lightning weapon (medium sized) is NOT the same as the arc emitter and it's completely unrelated to the tech. there is an XL slot (battleship spinal mount) weapon that is explicitly called "arc emitter". that weapon requires plasma weapons to research.

OP asked about the tech tree, and in the tech tree arc emitters require plasma cannons. plasma doesn't have a hard dependency, but the chance for plasma throwers to show up as a pick is twice as high when you have red lasers.

of course you can also get EVERY weapon (and pretty all the utility slot items) in the game by scanning debris of ships that had those weapons. that's completely beside the point, though. the empire that originally researched them either started with those weapons (fallen empire) or they researched them, following the rules of the tech tree. (or they also destroyed some ship that had the tech and reverse engineered it, but then someone else must have researched them first , following the rules)

[kilen]

Aaaah !!
That i didnt know, ok.
Mid slots "Arc" of 1.3 (dont know name in english) arent former Arc Emmitter, i thought it was an update to put it on mid, their visual effects is exactly the same of Arc XL)...
yeah ok then, u r right (y) :)

And agree for rest too, of course (even if, in practice, even if an other did before, u can get without need more older weapons to have it... and so, no so odd then u need plasma for Arc or other cases... "in practice"...perso, i always counted on debris to have best weapons, not classic tree, i simply dont mind to plan studies for further XLs)

But yeah, thx for precisions, its good to know Arc still exist in XL ! (I was frustrated to believe it changed previously, thats a good news)

I will check wiki in detail, when i did 1week after outcome, updates of 1.3 wasnt dispo yet...

Cya ;)

[Azunai]

yeah i agree, in practice it's often easier to "loot" the stuff from alien ships instead of researching it. the original poster was asking about multiplayer, though. if they play a map with only human players, they'll have to research more of the stuff from scratch and can't just blow up some AI ships to skip a few technology levels.

[Voelkar]

Originally posted by Azunai:

don't know if plasma weapons have a higher chance to pop up when you have the basic laser tech, but i think so.

Can't confirm. My race started with lasers but got the plasma tech only in the late end game