pop ethic shift

[ilyude]

do pops actually change ethics now or is that still broken

[climbingeastofwinter]

Curious if there is an answer to this or not. As a semi-experiment, I tried to turn an Egalitarian / Fanatic Militant empire into Egal / Militant/ Xenophile to pick up Xenocompat, with the intention to dump Egalitarian and Xenophile for Fanatic Materialist, or anything that doesn't contain one of those two, really. 200 years later, I still can't get 20% support in any faction to initiate a shift, even with Will to Power fueling complete suppression of everything except the ethics I try to shift to, and Hearts and Minds (which yes, I know fortifies governing ethics a bit) to provide that extra 100% shift rate. Taken together, after about 200 years of 45% expected support for Authoritarianism and <5% expected support for everything else except for 28% in Militant, I can't get Authoritarianism to budge over 13%. Wasn't having any luck with Materialism either.

This is with all of my Authoritarian pops concentrated under the banner of a single Authoritarian faction, with 85% faction approval rate.

I don't know what all goes into the actual shifting / ethic distribution mechanics, but my pops are all decadent with Imperial rulership with a subject Empire under our control, a Stratified economy, and Elitism. Even have a robot slave on my planets.

I've invested more time and resources into attempting to shift my populace's ethics to Authoritarianism than I invested into eliminating every other species, Pre-FTL or otherwise, in the galaxy. It has been two centuries since the last Amoeba, Crystal, or other independent Empire has fallen. The map is mine. Apparently I still don't understand basic game mechanics because I can not for the life of me figure out how to manage my population ethics.

Edit: Nevermind, I see that you can just use the console to fix it.

[Vyndicu]

Originally posted by Danny:

Well there is one way of turning every pop on a planet into Spiritualist... XD

The only good f. materialist is a spiritualist?

Right... *Slowly walk out of the room*

[Prometheus]

It definitely does work now. Pops can and do shift ethics. Some people say its still too slow but its definitely not the effectively never of before. I have personally witnessed ethics shifting.

There seems to be a state you can get into where it stops working. This is based on some people on the official forum posting tests where one empire is shifting and one empire isn't. There was no solid indication of what causes it to lock up.

Based on the code dumps people have posted its a random weighted roll based on the attractions. With a few exceptions put in like "if % of pops is too far above expected then pops cannot shift to this ethic".

[Vyndicu]

Originally posted by Promethian:

It definitely does work now. Pops can and do shift ethics. Some people say its still too slow but its definitely not the effectively never of before. I have personally witnessed ethics shifting.

There seems to be a state you can get into where it stops working. This is based on some people on the official forum posting tests where one empire is shifting and one empire isn't. There was no solid indication of what causes it to lock up.

Based on the code dumps people have posted its a random weighted roll based on the attractions. With a few exceptions put in like "if % of pops is too far above expected then pops cannot shift to this ethic".

You couldn't be even more wrong...

There is some screenshot of the nation's leader randomly end up as an "active and ruler's political faction" at just 57 population (as of 2.6.3).

Sometime that doesn't happen but ethos shift is still a problem otherwise. By problem, I meant spending untold amount of influence trying to suppress factions you don't want only to have no one leaving that particular factions.

[Prometheus]

I didn't remark on suppressing factions and yet you are saying I am wrong. I also said that there is a bug that causes ethics shifting to lock up. Which means I could very easily be right and you are just pointing out one of the cases of that bug.

I will repeat I HAVE PERSONALLY WITNESSED ETHICS SHIFTING. I have conquered a Purifier and 20 years later their were fewer xenophobes. This wasn't my xenophobe % went down because new pops weren't xenophobes. The raw number was lower. I will note though they all ended up with charismatic xenos sharing a planet with them and I was a xenophile empire so there was a very heavy counter attraction to phobe.

[Vyndicu]

The source I cited was imposing a 75% attraction to their spiritualist and barely saw their spiritualist pop shift away from it: like one actually going from 57 population to 121. Only one population shift away during that timeframe. After all was said and done: Faction attraction for spiritualist should have been at 3% population minimum and there was still 21% following spiritualist. He had 72% xenophile attraction and only 46% follows xenophile.

That is a severe gameplay problem because the user started with at least one degree materalist (not sure if F or just regular) and one degree of xenophile. So 20% of your population will always be at low happiness and that hurts your early-game stability and losing influence both to "suppressing the opposing faction" and reduce your faction influence income.

We, as Stellaris players, have literally and figurative zero control over if a ruler should "join" a political faction as a member at all. That might be a great way to manipulative your faction landscape in a future DLC expanding on internal management.

But currently as it is now? That is a big no-no.

[Faren (Lawful)]

There is zero control to control faction support. currently the one I am surppressing (the counter to my government ethos) is the second highest supported faction. It is entirely broken atm, cause I have everything boosting attraction to my governing ethics except a blacksite that i am building now and my ethics are in the minority.

I don't have any migration treaty, nor have I conquored anyone.

[Guts]

You can create more support for extra ethics by allowing xeno citizens and using migration pacts. Then put a bunch of the xenos with the ethics you want on one planet and make sure that planet's population grows a lot. Cancel the migration pact and make it so citizens can't move around freely between planets. Enable population controls on the citizens with the ethics you want to suppress. The new faction will gain in strength, and with you supporting the factions, it will encourage the new pops to follow in their parent's footsteps. Is this ethical? No. Is it practical? No. Does it work? Also, not very effective. But after like 100 years of doing that, you will adopt a new ethic. I accidentally added militarist to my xenophile materialist megacorp by going to war a lot and having a migration pact with despotic slavers.

[Dude]

It 'works' but could use a bit of tweaking.

Authoritarian Empires can suffer greatly if their leader chooses to randomly join a small faction of Egalitarians. For Democratic Empires it's less of an issue since it's elected leader will most often belong to the biggest and most influential faction.

[ThunderOrigin]

Originally posted by hysterical non-agent:

Mmm. I'm about 50 years in with only comfortmist pops, imperial cult, the harmony tradition for more governing ethics attraction, one vision, keeping up the government attraction edict, had the egalitarian faction suppressed since they popped up, and I still have something like 15% of my pops going for egalitarian in my fanatic authoritarian empire
if anything, it feels worse than before, not better, since my games seem to be throwing a bunch of factions I never saw pop up before, making the difficulty of shifting their ethics even more difficult

Pops without full citizenship, partial slaver slaves, will swing them to Egalitarian.