Early-game energy deficit?

[The Boominator]

So, let me preface this by saying that I've only played about 6 hours of this game so far (got it during the sale) and I spread that out across 3 campaigns just to get a broad appreciation for the different starts and civ traits.

That said, I seem to run an energy deficit for like 80% of the early game. Which is fine, by the way, since I can just sell excess minerals and food and I have yet to fall in debt (if this is dumb, let me know). But my question is: is this normal?



--------------------------------Breakdown of expenses --------------------------------

I favor playing a very wide, fanatic militarist civ, but I don't build up my fleets until I meet a rival civilization and they start having border tensions with me. However, in order to play wide, I typically run 3-4 science ships early on, as well as 1-2 construction ships. The majority of my deficits come from the upkeep for the scientists themselves. My star bases are probably my second-largest expense, but they're typically cost-neutral, especially with growth traditions (-20% maintenance).

Generally trade isn't an option super early and energy-producing buildings like generators are either entirely unavailable, or the opportunity cost for them (against unity and allow-producing buildings) doesn't justify making them.

Am I doing something wrong?

[Nightmyre]

You're basically doing everything right. I wouldn't bother with a second construction ship early - you'll likely not have the resources to really make use of it - but otherwise, everything else is fine.

I expect your problems are more related to how you're building your planets up. The vast majority of your energy should be coming from your planets. Most of your spaceborne resources will be minerals. As such, most of your early districts should be the generator districts. That should supply you with all the energy you need.

I also wouldn't bother with alloy buildings early on. You end up losing out on two fronts - not only do you lose workers that could be working energy-producing jobs, but you also lose out because you're now converting minerals (and, to a lesser extent, energy) into alloys. This is especially true since you're indicating you're not building your fleets up until you have border tensions.

Feel free to post a screenshot of your planets and your species/ethics, though, if you want more specific advice.

[HyperKnight]

Having four science ships is expensive and nets you more exploration than you can occupy, I usually run two.

Another early game drain are research stations, you do not need to tech up until you finish the expansion.

In my opinion the alloy foundry should be your second building after influence one, because you can never have enough alloys if you want to win expansion race and beat up your neighbours later.

There is no such thing as excessive minerals and food, if you have them then you are doing your development wrong.

[The Boominator]

Originally posted by Hairy Plotter:

Having four science ships is expensive and nets you more exploration than you can occupy, I usually run two.

Another early game drain are research stations, you do not need to tech up until you finish the expansion.

In my opinion the alloy foundry should be your second building after influence one, because you can never have enough alloys if you want to win expansion race and beat up your neighbours later.

There is no such thing as excessive minerals and food, if you have them then you are doing your development wrong.

A few points of clarification:
I like research in the early game because running wide hurts my research in the late game. I also try to grab anomalies up for research and currency bonuses.

By "influence building" do you mean "unity?" Sincere question, since I'm absurdly new and I would love to get more influence.

I feel like you can have excessive resources. Like, hypothetically (I don't have the game open right now), if I'm bringing in like +50 minerals in the early game, I can sell off 500 or so here and there. Because that consistently happens because of my civ's traits and build.
Also, there doesn't seem to be much of a benefit of having more food than I could possibly need. And I certainly don't want them hitting the stockpile limits, right? How would I remedy this?

[The Boominator]

Originally posted by Nightmyre:

You're basically doing everything right. I wouldn't bother with a second construction ship early - you'll likely not have the resources to really make use of it - but otherwise, everything else is fine.

I expect your problems are more related to how you're building your planets up. The vast majority of your energy should be coming from your planets. Most of your spaceborne resources will be minerals. As such, most of your early districts should be the generator districts. That should supply you with all the energy you need.

I also wouldn't bother with alloy buildings early on. You end up losing out on two fronts - not only do you lose workers that could be working energy-producing jobs, but you also lose out because you're now converting minerals (and, to a lesser extent, energy) into alloys. This is especially true since you're indicating you're not building your fleets up until you have border tensions.

Feel free to post a screenshot of your planets and your species/ethics, though, if you want more specific advice.

I usually don't have a second construction ship until I can start expanding in two directions at once. I will take your alloy recommendations under advisement, though.

Also, I may have this wrong, but it seems like I don't have the option to build generator buildings/districts in the early game. I see no option for it.

[Nightmyre]

Not the buildings - the districts. They produce technician jobs. If you're not building those, then 100% that's your problem.

https://stellaris.paradoxwikis.com/Districts

Also just PS - there absolutely is "excess minerals or food". You want to try to keep those to a relatively usable level. Having too much means you're losing efficiency selling them for energy. You're better off having more energy instead, which you can then directly use to buy alloys or other goods.

And PPS - four science ships is definitely not a bad thing. I usually run 3-5 myself.

[Meewec]

Originally posted by The Boominator:

Also, I may have this wrong, but it seems like I don't have the option to build generator buildings/districts in the early game. I see no option for it.

should be the 2nd category of districts, the yellow one


as long as you're not at a huge deficit of energy being at a surplus of other stuff isn't necessarily a bad thing.

i tend to get a lot of my energy and consumer goods needs from trade value, but that's a system that not everyone likes to use and is a bit more complicated than just building generator districts. best to get a hang of the basics before looking into that.

[The Boominator]

Alright... I have to come clean. I just found out how to build districts.
That explains the excess minerals...
And everything else.

[_ALuX_]

If anything, I have found that making good use of the galactic market is the way to go. In most cases, you aren't using those extra consumer goods anyway, so that should be able to keep you afloat until you fix your deficit. In most cases, fixing your deficit is a hard choice, so make good use of the energy districts you have. Dedicating planets to a single specialization (I.E. a planet with nothing but food or mineral production) isn't exactly a winning strategy.

[Meewec]

Originally posted by _ALuX_:

If anything, I have found that making good use of the galactic market is the way to go. In most cases, you aren't using those extra consumer goods anyway, so that should be able to keep you afloat until you fix your deficit. In most cases, fixing your deficit is a hard choice, so make good use of the energy districts you have. Dedicating planets to a single specialization (I.E. a planet with nothing but food or mineral production) isn't exactly a winning strategy.

early game you build what you need but in the long run taking advantage of planet specializations is a nice boost to your economy

[Exarch_Alpha]

I do use 3 or 4 science ships, because at least one of those, eventually 2 or 3 will need to assist research. More than that however is indeed silly. Too much energy expense.

[Nightmyre]

Originally posted by Exarch_Alpha:

I do use 3 or 4 science ships, because at least one of those, eventually 2 or 3 will need to assist research. More than that however is indeed silly. Too much energy expense.

You do understand that energy expense is trivial, right?

Base leader cost is a massive *two* energy per month. Yes, it scales with exceeding admin cap, but given it's incredibly low starting point, it shouldn't ever actually affect your gameplay in any way.

[Krausladen]

always use as many science ships as you can, 1-2 for exploring, all the others assisting research on your main planets.

[Exarch_Alpha]

Originally posted by Nightmyre:

You do understand that energy expense is trivial, right?

Base leader cost is a massive *two* energy per month. Yes, it scales with exceeding admin cap, but given it's incredibly low starting point, it shouldn't ever actually affect your gameplay in any way.

The cost inflates a lot as you need two or three admirals and governors for more than 5 sectors. Maybe not relevant for machines but for people who need terraforming or want to use curators and troupe ALL the time, energy use matters.

Besides it´s not like you can make 10 research planets out of 10, you need to make alloys, consumer goods... For me in medium galaxy 4 scientists assisting research is enough.

[Nightmyre]

Originally posted by Exarch_Alpha:

Originally posted by Nightmyre:

You do understand that energy expense is trivial, right?

Base leader cost is a massive *two* energy per month. Yes, it scales with exceeding admin cap, but given it's incredibly low starting point, it shouldn't ever actually affect your gameplay in any way.

The cost inflates a lot as you need two or three admirals and governors for more than 5 sectors. Maybe not relevant for machines but for people who need terraforming or want to use curators and troupe ALL the time, energy use matters.

Besides it´s not like you can make 10 research planets out of 10, you need to make alloys, consumer goods... For me in medium galaxy 4 scientists assisting research is enough.

Okay - so putting aside the fact that you're simply flat-out wrong in your assessment that you can't go purely research.

Even if you have three admirals, and five governors, and eight researchers - that amounts to a total of 32 energy per month for maintenance. And even if your admin cap has been exceeded by such a large amount that you're at 300% cost - you're still only at 96 energy per month.

If you have that many leaders, and you're not making hundreds of energy in surplus every month, you have far bigger issues than your leader cost.

[xycotta]

Originally posted by Hairy Plotter:

Having four science ships is expensive and nets you more exploration than you can occupy, I usually run two.

Another early game drain are research stations, you do not need to tech up until you finish the expansion.

In my opinion the alloy foundry should be your second building after influence one, because you can never have enough alloys if you want to win expansion race and beat up your neighbours later.

There is no such thing as excessive minerals and food, if you have them then you are doing your development wrong.

I usually have 9-12 science ships. The thing with science ships, it opens you up to finding alot of anomalies. Anomalies can give you science, energy, research, ships, minerals, tech , frankly about everything. You find AIs which give you influence so you can expand faster.

It costs a bit at first, but it pays off.