Utopian abundance are unfair.

[hellatze]

Sure worker class get more goods.

But unemployed pop will produce unity and research point ?

This is ridiculus compared to academic previlage. Who give only happiness.

[hellatze]

I dont think unemployed pop able to give research.

There is no logic on it.

[BanDHMO]

You may be right, but it's also expensive to supply all those extra goods, not to mention if you are going Egalitarian, you are hamstringing yourself in the early game, since you then can't do slavery. So maybe it balances out. Finally, I'm not sure unity is that big of a deal to be ahead in. If you have 2nd level lasers and the enemy has 4th, you're in big trouble, but if the enemy has an extra tradition tree on you, it's probably not a big deal.

[hellatze]

Originally posted by BanDHMO:

You may be right, but it's also expensive to supply all those extra goods, not to mention if you are going Egalitarian, you are hamstringing yourself in the early game, since you then can't do slavery. So maybe it balances out. Finally, I'm not sure unity is that big of a deal to be ahead in. If you have 2nd level lasers and the enemy has 4th, you're in big trouble, but if the enemy has an extra tradition tree on you, it's probably not a big deal.

The point is.

Academic previlage are pointless.

[hellatze]

And +20% happiness. Dont forget that.

[Mistfox]

Originally posted by hellatze:

And +20% happiness. Dont forget that.

That 20% happiness is about +5% to all production don't forget that.

[hellatze]

Originally posted by Mistfox:

Originally posted by hellatze:

And +20% happiness. Dont forget that.

That 20% happiness is about +5% to all production don't forget that.

I dont thi k you get my post. That unemployed give research AND unity bonus plus 20% happiness.

Also happiness keep planet stable you know.

[hellatze]

And academic previlage are sucks.

[SievertChaser]

Originally posted by hellatze:

I dont think unemployed pop able to give research.

There is no logic on it.

There is. Utopian Abundance is Luxury Gay Space Communism, where you shower your population with so much free stuff the unemployed are free to engage artistically (Unity) and even scientifically (Research), whereas under less luxurious living standards they have to go find a job.

[Rorschach]

Utopian abundance is very expensive to maintain, you need consumer goods at the expense of everything else. Pop upkeep is really heavy on your economy that way and as BanDHMO says it will keep you from expanding in the early game. If you are a singleplayer and roleplay like I do, I find that it makes good sense to have people contribute if they have no material needs, ala the Star Trek future where every material need is covered.

[Donut Steel]

Originally posted by hellatze:

I dont think unemployed pop able to give research.

There is no logic on it.

This mirrors real-life quite well. People who are economically-inactive actually do generate a source of data that can be used in research.

In real-life about 1/5th of the population of any developed country are disabled. About half of that group are retired and the other half are either children or working-age adults who experience 'the disability employment gap' which in the UK is about 30 percent.

How different people live allows economic models to be tested in a micro-climate to see if they hold up. The impact of unemployment on long-term health can be examined. Children can be produced and raised outside of a traditional family environment and their outcomes measured; a subject that attracts strong opinions informed by very little information in real-life.

Better yet, where a welfare state is 'utopian', people can contribute who otherwise are unable to engage in the labour market due to disability or familial obligations. Capitalism only really happened after the invention of 'limited liability' meant people with debt problems rather than being sent to prison to do unproductive work could be relieved of the burden and contribute their best talents.

[Azunai]

it's stupid expensive to maintain and the bonus only kinda sorta pays off if you ♥♥♥♥♥♥ up big time and have a huge number of unemployed pops. if you manage your economy reasonably, you won't have anywhere near enough unemployment to warrant the massively increased upkeep.

[hellatze]

Originally posted by dennis.danilov:

Originally posted by hellatze:

I dont think unemployed pop able to give research.

There is no logic on it.

There is. Utopian Abundance is Luxury Gay Space Communism, where you shower your population with so much free stuff the unemployed are free to engage artistically (Unity) and even scientifically (Research), whereas under less luxurious living standards they have to go find a job.

showering people with luxury will not grant you worker. at all.

people start to get lazy, and no motivation for their live.

this need nerf.

i accept unity gain, but not research.

[hellatze]

Originally posted by Azunai:

it's stupid expensive to maintain and the bonus only kinda sorta pays off if you ♥♥♥♥♥♥ up big time and have a huge number of unemployed pops. if you manage your economy reasonably, you won't have anywhere near enough unemployment to warrant the massively increased upkeep.

doesnt consumer good are easy to obtain ?

[Azor]

Originally posted by hellatze:

Originally posted by dennis.danilov:

There is. Utopian Abundance is Luxury Gay Space Communism, where you shower your population with so much free stuff the unemployed are free to engage artistically (Unity) and even scientifically (Research), whereas under less luxurious living standards they have to go find a job.

showering people with luxury will not grant you worker. at all.

people start to get lazy, and no motivation for their live.

this need nerf.

i accept unity gain, but not research.

[citation needed]

[Azunai]

"easy to obtain" is not a relevant factor. the cost is an opportunity cost.

consumer goods are minerals that could be turned into alloys or used to build more stuff on more planets instead of being wasted on pop maintenance. you need factories staffed with specialists to turn those minerals into additional CG and those factories also take up building slots. without abundance, those slots could be used for more research for example. or for more military power / alloys