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Antimatter Missiles are Missiles T3.
Space Torpedoes are Torpedoes T2
There are 3 Types of Missiles:
- Regular Missiles: Range from T1 - 5
- Swarmer Missiles: Range from T4 - 5
- Torpedoes: Range from T2 - T4
Now, I honestly don't quite get how you managed to roll Space Torpedoes and Antimatter Missiles before you have even researched their pre-req which is Fusion Missiles..
Then again, you shouldn't be able to get Swarmer Missiles before you have Quantum Missiles and you get them, Swarmers, as an option once you research Fusion Missiles..
Differences between Swarmer and Missiles lies in their differences in damage and evasion.
Swarmer Missiles is something you use against heavy PD setups and Normal Missiles is something you use against no PD setups.
Torpedoes are in general worthless unless it is Proton Torpedoes in which case you love them for their 100% evasion, however Proton Torpedoes is a Physics Research and not an Engineering Research
You can get research options from analyzing battle debris which would explain having the Antimatter Missile option despite not having Fusion Missiles.
Swarmer Missiles are T2, so there is no reason to gate them behind Quantum Missiles (T3).
Proton 'Torpedoes' are no longer actual torpedoes. The launchers are restricted to the L slot and don't penetrate shields (they are actually weak against shields).
They have always been gated behind Quantum Missiles and they have always belonged in T4 together with Advanced Railguns, Plasma Accelerators, Ion Disruptors and so forth.
2.0 didn't bring major revisions to the technology tree and this should not happen, it is most likely a bug due to the new research tiers that were added to the game.
Now, he wasn't talking about battle debris, he was talking about the fact that he rolled them in his technology window as options something that should not be possible (unless antimatter missiles and space torpedoes were salvaged).
They are a) trash, b) loved to be placed on defensive bastions by AI.
You really don't understand what you are talking about though :3.
I just added free advice because you and other folks here already answered on OP with enough precision.
And this why I begin with "also" :P
In fact Swarmer Missiles and their upgraded Whirlwind brothers are currently the best weapons in the entire game.
They bypass shields and armor, are almost impossible for PD to take out and you can put them on Corvettes. Considering that Corvettes are currently the best ship out there because of its ridiculous evasion... yeah. You just wanna do the Swarmer Missile setup preferably with Disruptors too..
In fact I don't know of anyone playing Admiral or higher that doesn't use Corvettes with Swarmer Missiles/Whirlwind Missiles and Disruptors as their main force.
It is that powerful a whombo-combo and can with ease take on even the strongest in-game crisis. Throw in a bloody titan or two to improve your fire rate and whatnot.. It's almost unstoppable.
Stop using your stupid mods when come to post here.
Because in vanila Stellaris all that Swarmer missiles have is 100% shield pen, so they don't bypass armor. And only 12.27 dps.
Compare with Marauders : +25% hull damage, 20 dps.
As we already found here - they're not. Stop making advices based on mods content.
Actually not because of their evasion.
Main corvette advantages are their sublight speed and raw dps (1 missile per 1CP it's very strong), while evasion only give them upper hand in comparision with BB (that can have near same dps but much more vulnerable).
It's not the only case of such a discrepancy either, as Flak Artillery is no longer gated by Railguns but instead only requires Coilguns, Kinetic Artillery is no longer gated by Kinetic Battery but instead requires Gauss Cannons.
Are those all bugs?
At no point does he state that he rolled them as options. He might have salvaged anitmatter missiles at some point.
Better to use this tech tree : https://bipedalshark.gitlab.io/stellaris-tech-tree/vanilla/
Wiki outdated a lot.
Plasma's always rated as worse damage than Lasers yet they were superior in every way.
PD and Flak rates as some of the best damage and yet they are some of the worst.
Tell me how much dps matters? Oh wait.. It doesn't because the Modifiers aren't reflected in this number. They never have been.
The reason why missiles were the best was because point defense wasn't working and they have no negative modifier to them, now that point defense is working and taking out Torpedoes and Missiles with ease the go to is Swarmer and Whirlwind missiles because they are not affected by PD and they have no negative modifiers coupled with Disruptors it is the strongest setup you can get and it cannot be countered currently.
If you don't believe me, believe the people that figured this one out.. They're quite adament on not letting the subject die on the official forums, because it is impossible to counter unless you do the exact same.
Sublight speed has no effect on combat speed. It's two different things and their advantage is not getting to the enemy faster. If it were they would have been the go to ship in 1.9 as combat speed has remained the same.
It is true though, that the 1 missile per 1 fleet cap is pretty insane. I do disagree that it is combat speed.. In 1.9 Cruisers and Battleships would tear through your Corvettes before they even reached you, now they can't even bloody hit the ships.
This why we calculate eDps and run tests.
Tell me what modifiers have swarmers? Oh wait... it doen't have any aside shield pen.
What?! PD worked since 2.0 release.
And even with latest buff it unable to deal with mass torpedoes. Sure, sure, mono-PD destroyers still able to win over mono-corvettes. But never in mixed fleet.
Stop lying, start playing.
Disruptors countered easily by crystalline armor and good weapon loadouts.
Maybe you will drop obsolete 1.9.x and try to play in modern Stellaris?
I repeat - try to actually play in 2.0.2. You will be very surprised how slowly ships move around in late game when large parts of galaxy war with each other.
In fact many players use 2xAB BB. Simply because of sub-light speed.
Well, I see your point. They probably have made revisions to pre-requisites. You got lucky with the Gauss Cannons, I have to admit. Btw, small thing still, Kinetic Artillery is gated behind Advanced Railguns - not Coilguns. You're thinking of Auto-Cannons which Coilguns unlock.
The reason why I don't see how research tiers would alter anything is because the Software Programmer in me knows that adding 2 extra rows to their Research Tier database to work as foreign keys for their Engineering/Physics/Society Databases won't alter the Pre-Requisite Column in Engineering/Physics/Society Databases. That would defeat the entire purpose of relational databases/arrays.
The wiki lists them as being in Research Tier 2 because that was their old Research Tier. Their research tier has nothing to do with their weapon tier.. :).
Anywho, you are correct, pre-requisites were redone.