Dealing with Eliminators

[Energist]

I'm having issues dealing with Eliminators and Devouring swarms. They are able to field incredibly powerful fleets, and it seems that if I lose the first battle, I lose the war. Due to their causus belli mechanics, that's usually a game over since they can take a seemingly infinite amount of territory.

What advantages do they get, and what are their weaknesses? I know they can't do diplomacy, but that seems not not be much of an issue considering how self sufficient they are. Every game, the top empires are run by those types of beings.

Any tips on how to handle them?

[Meewec]

advantage is they have total war casus belli which means what they take is instantly theirs and swarms at least get 33% boost to naval capacity. also since they're gestalts they don't have happiness to worry about.

both a plus and a minus is they don't have factions

downsides is everyone hates them so federations and defensive pacts will spring up around them. they also instantly lose any systems that their enemies take due to the total war casus belli they have.


how they do all depends on their first target. if they win then they usually have a lot more territory to work with so they can pick on more neighbors. if they lose they're screwed because then they get too many enemies to deal with at the same time

(edit)if one is your neighbor then fortify your border with them and try to meet their fleet with yours at your defensive starbases. then go on the offensive

[Cigarette Smoking Man]

Generally, they are the strongest types empires if they survive the early game. If you had an average start to the game, your best bet is to team up against them with other empires or get into a defensive pact. You should be able to beat them in a war if you target their systems with multiple feels, divide and conquer etc. since you instantly take the system. If you are proactive, you can distract them long enough for the war to be over because they have to take the territory back before they get to your planet (the AI usually goes for the closest systems/planets first, this includes planets you have just taken). When you take over their planets, remember to resettle some of your pops onto then because the hive mind pops die, plus build forts.

All I can say, winning hard wars is about exploiting AI.

[Eminence]

I second Meewec's advice. My last game I started next to an advanced start (assumption based on their very high power very early and I have advanced neighbors on) Determined Exterminator.
I befriended another nearby empire, even though they were not exactly the empire I was looking to make friends with (playing Pacifists and they were fanatic Militarists, the only way I was able to cultivate that was we were both spiritual and both pissing our pants over the neighborhood killbots)
While getting diplomacy going I raced to choke points. I lost the race to the single come point, but got them in a two system choke. I then fortified the ♥♥♥♥ out of both starbases, setup a shipyard base 1 system back to reinforce and house my defense fleet. The best part for me was my 'ally' was on the other side. When war broke out my systems were so heavily fortified they didn't want to attack me and I was about to pick off a number of systems while they attacked my ally.

I could go into more detail of how it went down, but I guess the moral of the story is diplomacy is their weakness. It can be difficult to 1v1 them, so don't. Make friends even if you know you are going to be at war with the later. As the saying goes "The enemy of my enemy is my friend"

[Energist]

Damn that seems over powered.

I've never seen anybody form an alliance against them. Nor have I seen them not war declare me being in a defensive pact.

I was just in a game with my cousin, he and I had a defensive pact. The eliminator still war declared me. We ended up winning, took some systems.

10 years later, he somehow fields a navy more than double our strength, war declares me again. We don't have this issue with normal empires, but these in particular seem to get some significant advantages beyond what the tool tip shows. He wipes us both out. No way out of the war until he gets about everything.

Is teaming up the only way to handle them? They seem a bit over powered despite their limitations. Conventional warfare doesn't seem to be doable against them. If we ignore them they usually gobble up every adjacent empire by 2350.

[Energist]

Originally posted by Twitch Bob:

Generally, they are the strongest types empires if they survive the early game. If you had an average start to the game, your best bet is to team up against them with other empires or get into a defensive pact. You should be able to beat them in a war if you target their systems with multiple feels, divide and conquer etc. since you instantly take the system. If you are proactive, you can distract them long enough for the war to be over because they have to take the territory back before they get to your planet (the AI usually goes for the closest systems/planets first, this includes planets you have just taken). When you take over their planets, remember to resettle some of your pops onto then because the hive mind pops die, plus build forts.

All I can say, winning hard wars is about exploiting AI.

I see. Atleast it isn't just me then. Something has seemed off about them, but the listed bonuses alone don't account for it far as I can tell. It must also be the GC benefits too.

They are economic and military power houses. Able to produce ships at an alarming rate. Late into a game I either don't see any, or they are the most powerful empire behind the fallen.

[Energist]

Originally posted by Eminence:

I second Meewec's advice. My last game I started next to an advanced start (assumption based on their very high power very early and I have advanced neighbors on) Determined Exterminator.
I befriended another nearby empire, even though they were not exactly the empire I was looking to make friends with (playing Pacifists and they were fanatic Militarists, the only way I was able to cultivate that was we were both spiritual and both pissing our pants over the neighborhood killbots)
While getting diplomacy going I raced to choke points. I lost the race to the single come point, but got them in a two system choke. I then fortified the ♥♥♥♥ out of both starbases, setup a shipyard base 1 system back to reinforce and house my defense fleet. The best part for me was my 'ally' was on the other side. When war broke out my systems were so heavily fortified they didn't want to attack me and I was about to pick off a number of systems while they attacked my ally.

I could go into more detail of how it went down, but I guess the moral of the story is diplomacy is their weakness. It can be difficult to 1v1 them, so don't. Make friends even if you know you are going to be at war with the later. As the saying goes "The enemy of my enemy is my friend"

The funny part of this is that I usually play diplomatic types so I'm not a military expert. This time I wanted to do a military style so I chose the Common Wealth of man thinking I'd be a good conquest type. I spawned next to an Eliminator. Within 50 years he had taken out both of his other neighbors then proceeded to destroy me and my cousin.

The only one to so far win a war against them was my other cousin, who was playing the Devouring Swarm lol...

[Eminence]

I recently started playing a fanatical purifier, and I don't know if the hive mind killers work considerably differently, but my influence generation and costs are WAYYY easier to manage. I can keep more edicts going while still expanding EXTREMELY fast. That's another big part of their power. All of the "killer" empires are going to go as wide as possible as fast as possible. And make up the research and unity penalties by scanning debris and killing your pops.

[Cigarette Smoking Man]

Originally posted by Energist:

Originally posted by Eminence:

I second Meewec's advice. My last game I started next to an advanced start (assumption based on their very high power very early and I have advanced neighbors on) Determined Exterminator.
I befriended another nearby empire, even though they were not exactly the empire I was looking to make friends with (playing Pacifists and they were fanatic Militarists, the only way I was able to cultivate that was we were both spiritual and both pissing our pants over the neighborhood killbots)
While getting diplomacy going I raced to choke points. I lost the race to the single come point, but got them in a two system choke. I then fortified the ♥♥♥♥ out of both starbases, setup a shipyard base 1 system back to reinforce and house my defense fleet. The best part for me was my 'ally' was on the other side. When war broke out my systems were so heavily fortified they didn't want to attack me and I was about to pick off a number of systems while they attacked my ally.

I could go into more detail of how it went down, but I guess the moral of the story is diplomacy is their weakness. It can be difficult to 1v1 them, so don't. Make friends even if you know you are going to be at war with the later. As the saying goes "The enemy of my enemy is my friend"

The funny part of this is that I usually play diplomatic types so I'm not a military expert. This time I wanted to do a military style so I chose the Common Wealth of man thinking I'd be a good conquest type. I spawned next to an Eliminator. Within 50 years he had taken out both of his other neighbors then proceeded to destroy me and my cousin.

The only one to so far win a war against them was my other cousin, who was playing the Devouring Swarm lol...

Xenophobe empires are pretty bad if they aren't purifiers in my opinion. Federation builder type empires are probably the best for winning the game. Militarist and Xenophile are the ethics I usually have the most success with.

[Energist]

Originally posted by Twitch Bob:

Originally posted by Energist:

The funny part of this is that I usually play diplomatic types so I'm not a military expert. This time I wanted to do a military style so I chose the Common Wealth of man thinking I'd be a good conquest type. I spawned next to an Eliminator. Within 50 years he had taken out both of his other neighbors then proceeded to destroy me and my cousin.

The only one to so far win a war against them was my other cousin, who was playing the Devouring Swarm lol...

Xenophobe empires are pretty bad if they aren't purifiers in my opinion. Federation builder type empires are probably the best for winning the game. Militarist and Xenophile are the ethics I usually have the most success with.

Good to know. The diplomatic reputation hit really made it tough. Three of us were playing. One a devourer, then two of us Common Wealth of Man dictators- we made a defensive pact, but got annihiladed all the same by the Eliminators.

My other cousin as the devourer was able to field a 20 to 30k fleet within 80 years of game time. This was almost triple what we could do.

I'm not an expert at the war game, but the math didn't add up.

Anyways, good to know it's not only me here. I'll take this advice to heart.

[Meewec]

Originally posted by Energist:

The funny part of this is that I usually play diplomatic types so I'm not a military expert. This time I wanted to do a military style so I chose the Common Wealth of man thinking I'd be a good conquest type. I spawned next to an Eliminator. Within 50 years he had taken out both of his other neighbors then proceeded to destroy me and my cousin.

The only one to so far win a war was my other cousin, who was playing the Devouring Swarm lol...

they won their early wars, which effectively gave them a ton of extra resources and worlds to start their snowball. they also get bonuses for whatever type of purge they use. devouring swarms get huge food boosts which fuel much faster population growth. i think exterminators get energy, but can't remember for certain.

like i said earlier, it's all about those early conflicts for these types of governments. my current game i'm a devourerer, i lucked out in that i had an exterminator for a neighbor who unfortunately entered a federation with another exterminator. but lucky for me there was a normal empire between the two and the 2nd exterminator couldn't get to me so i ate the one i bordered(because for some reason you can eat robots). then i ate the normal empire because he wasn't smart enough to make friends. then i continued along my arm of the galaxy that way and ate two more empires before turning on the other exterminator. i'm now probably at 40-45% of the galaxy having been eaten.

if an ai next to you is one of these and they ever go after someone else you should consider jumping on them while they're distracted if you're equivalent and especially if you're stronger.

[Energist]

Originally posted by Meewec:

Originally posted by Energist:

The funny part of this is that I usually play diplomatic types so I'm not a military expert. This time I wanted to do a military style so I chose the Common Wealth of man thinking I'd be a good conquest type. I spawned next to an Eliminator. Within 50 years he had taken out both of his other neighbors then proceeded to destroy me and my cousin.

The only one to so far win a war was my other cousin, who was playing the Devouring Swarm lol...

they won their early wars, which effectively gave them a ton of extra resources and worlds to start their snowball. they also get bonuses for whatever type of purge they use. devouring swarms get huge food boosts which fuel much faster population growth. i think exterminators get energy, but can't remember for certain.

like i said earlier, it's all about those early conflicts for these types of governments. my current game i'm a devourerer, i lucked out in that i had an exterminator for a neighbor who unfortunately entered a federation with another exterminator. but lucky for me there was a normal empire between the two and the 2nd exterminator couldn't get to me so i ate the one i bordered(because for some reason you can eat robots). then i ate the normal empire because he wasn't smart enough to make friends. then i continued along my arm of the galaxy that way and ate two more empires before turning on the other exterminator. i'm now probably at 40-45% of the galaxy having been eaten.

if an ai next to you is one of these and they ever go after someone else you should consider jumping on them while they're distracted if you're equivalent and especially if you're stronger.

Good to know. I think I get what they are now. It's no wonder the causus Belli says "containment". THey're a real threat.

Thanks for the advice. Much appreciated.