How to get positive energy with machines?

[Zyme]

I just can't do it.

I have reduced upkeep, energy credits machines on my power plants but whatever I do I still go negative in energy.

It is like they barely break even. It is impossible to have a big fleet.

When I play synths I can produce so much energy I can go over my naval cap.

This is underpowered af.

[Almost Psychic]

I rarely have an energy problem is a machine race so let's see if the simple rules I use for myself help you at all.

- Build a power plant on every tile that doesn't have minerals or science
- Always upgrade power plants first
- Never colonize a plant below size 15 if it can be helped
- Never colonize a planet at size 10 or lower under any circumstances

Other than that, there's not really anything I can tell you.

[Zyme]

That is what I am basically doing. The problem is my fleet power in 2270 is around 3000 while the enemy has 5000 each. I can't stay up with research, mineral and energy building with this race at once.

I can't hold enough ships to defend myself.

With synths I can have 20-50 ships over cap because I make mad credits. And using vanilla robots make way more minerals than machines...

Feels like machines are underpowered.

Also I am playing as exterminators.

[Almost Psychic]

I typically play dedicated exterminators and for research I just make sure to have a constructor build research outposts wherever possible (as well as having science buildings) and it generally keeps me ahead of most if not all other empires. I also keep 2 science ships and have them assist research on my research-heavy planets.

A quick summary of my early game: I make sure to have 2 science ships and 2 constructors asap, scout out as much as I can (I use hyperlanes because of the patch releasing soon), and conquer the first 2 primitive worlds I can find. From there, I start mass producing machines and power generators. Meanwhile, my constructors are building on everything inside of my influence.

After that, I just kind of carry on as I see fit depending on what the game throws at me. This typically keeps me well ahead of most scientifically, and with enough energy to maintain fleet cap, even after getting the ascension perk for a 200 fleet cap boost.

[Paragon]

Construct additional pylons.

Energy is usually only an issue early game, and the issue is amplified by the fact that you are machines which need energy instead of food. It could be you're building too many pops, but thats normally not a bad thing (in fact, it means more robots to work power plants if needed).

As exterminators you saddly can't trade with organics for more energy, and machine empires tend to value energy more. AI organic empires tend to have boatloads of energy past the opening stages, and are more than willing to sell them in bulk for precious minerals. I've often used this to keep my empire afloat for even long periods of time.

Machines are great for the mid and late games once you have a stable base and can afford to invest more to earn more. They're not good for weak and growing economies, so early game machine empires are weaker. However, with robomodding they can be more powerful than a synthetic ascension organic race, and machine worlds really kick off production, while also being a giant middle finger to organics who can't do anything with them.

Its hard to advise you without seeing you play really. All I can say is don't overbuild pops and try to build more power plants and prioritize its tech.

[There is no Mango]

Use mods.
Otherwise it is a tedious thing with not enough ways to control this with the tools the game gives you.

[Jewbacca]

Need a bit of luck. First all food, and empty tiles are energy. Second you need focus on energy research. At any time you get option that improves power plants go for it, second is energy hub, and third is the spaceport upgrade. You need to upgrade energy making facilities all the time.

[Алзксі Венс]

Originally posted by DumbCustomer:

Use mods.
Otherwise it is a tedious thing with not enough ways to control this with the tools the game gives you.

Your name is appropriate.

[Darkheart]

Originally posted by Almost_Psychic:

I rarely have an energy problem is a machine race so let's see if the simple rules I use for myself help you at all.

- Build a power plant on every tile that doesn't have minerals or science
- Always upgrade power plants first
- Never colonize a plant below size 15 if it can be helped
- Never colonize a planet at size 10 or lower under any circumstances

Other than that, there's not really anything I can tell you.

also have the bots on power slots moded to get more energy

[Azunai]

it's not much different from playing bio pops that need food as maintenance. powerplants are more efficient than farms, so it's actually easier to pay the robot upkeep than to feed an equal number of organic pops.

[Jewbacca]

Originally posted by Azunai:

it's not much different from playing bio pops that need food as maintenance. powerplants are more efficient than farms, so it's actually easier to pay the robot upkeep than to feed an equal number of organic pops.

Except, that food tiles exist beside power tiles, but for machines food tiles are quite same as empty tiles with no benefit for energy. Also you can unlock several buildings for bonus food (spaceport upgrade, paradise dome, slave process facilty, etc.) while still having the same energy output buildings.

[Azunai]

yeah, but farms consume power, so you need additional power plants just to pay the upkeep of the farms.

without food tiles, organics wouldn't even be playable early game. farm level 1 produces 2 food and cost 1 energy. so you need 1 level 1 powerplant to pay the upkeep which means you'd have 3 guys working those tiles just to produce 4 food. and the 3 guys already consume 3 of those 4 food.

robots are more efficient when comparing the naked values. a robot working a level 1 powerplant "eats" 1 energy and produces 1 surplus. simple as that.

[Jewbacca]

Originally posted by Azunai:

yeah, but farms consume power, so you need additional power plants just to pay the upkeep of the farms.

without food tiles, organics wouldn't even be playable early game. farm level 1 produces 2 food and cost 1 energy. so you need 1 level 1 powerplant to pay the upkeep which means you'd have 3 guys working those tiles just to produce 4 food. and the 3 guys already consume 3 of those 4 food.

robots are more efficient when comparing the naked values. a robot working a level 1 powerplant "eats" 1 energy and produces 1 surplus. simple as that.

Machine pops cost 1 energy each. Organic pops cost 1 food, and no energy. You have a tile with 1 energy, and another with one food, then you can have 1 power plant which gives 2 energy+ the tile resource, and 1 farm which gives 2 food+ tile resource. You can maintain 3 pop, and gain 2 energy.

Machine pop example: same tiles. You build 2 powerplant and gain a summarized 5 power. If you maintain 3 pops, then you are left with 2.

However there are plenty of strong early available building for organics. Slave procession facility gives +2 food, and 2 minerals. Paradise dome gives +4 food. You can build spaceport farm, and solar panels both giving 2 energy, and 3 food summarized. Machines can only build solar panel gaining 3 energy. If you maintain 3 pop, then you are left with no energy.

[Azunai]

the slave plant has an upkeep of 3, so you need an extra powerplant to run it. still a pretty good building (if you play a slaver, of course) since you can put it next to the capital and get its adjacency bonus to both the food and minerals.

the paradise dome is no advantage - machines have an equivalent building (control center) in their version of the harmony tradition. it gives +2 energy (and +2 unity and 5% bonus to all robot yields), which is pretty much on par with the paradise domes +4 food at -2 energy cost (and +2 unity + 5% happiness).

also, energy grid/nexus gives a % boost to energy which doesn't have an equivalent for food (other than the slave plant which is limited to 2 specific ethics). energy grid is a fairly early tech, too.

[Szeron]

Habitats; fill them with solar. It was nerfed, but it's still a net power gain. A handful of them should be plenty to hold you over until your Dyson Sphere.

Also, as an exterminator.. look for pre-space species; invade them; melt them down into raw energy whenever you need a bump.

My servitor games have taught me to ignore most tiles and just build specialized worlds to maximize multiplier bonuses as machine empires. Basically, look at the native tiles and specialize the world towards whatever would produce the best yield. Tons of science tiles? convert the whole world into a science complex with observatory and science ship assisting it. (Bio-trophy worlds/habitats run just enough power/minerals to maintain the machines that run the nutrient paste plants before releasing the organic 'pets' to breed and cover every inch of remaining livable space.)

[CureAga Wine]

Simply colonize another planet and fill it up with power plants.