Rare resources

[Xepep]

Gas, for example. I can get it from:
1) Deposits on the planets, both habitable and unhabitable. Getting them is random.
2) Buildings, which are not upgradable.
3) Trading with enclaves, caravaneers and galaxy market.
So, if I want lots of gas in late game, I have to either make long term deals on market or dedicate whole planets to gas refining?
Am I missing something?

[Azunai]

you can build habitats instead of mining stations over the deposits in space if they are on a planet that allows habitats. you can then build the harvesting buildings on the habitat which basically doubles the output quantity (since the gas extractor job yields 2 gas from 1 building)

other than that you're basically stuck with the refinery type buildings that synthesize the stuff from minerals and/or buying them from 3rd parties.

[Mistfox]

You don't really need too much of it, a good rule of thumb is one exotic materials building (motes, crystals, gas) supports one max upgraded building, so plan for a 50/50 split.

Don't use the natural mining buildings, they only give 1 resource compared to the 2 from manufactured so you need 2 just to support 1 building. They do suck up 10 minerals though so keep an eye on your mining colonies.

[Xepep]

Originally posted by Mistfox:

You don't really need too much of it, a good rule of thumb is one exotic materials building (motes, crystals, gas) supports one max upgraded building, so plan for a 50/50 split.

This means for every planet full of research labs I need a planet full of gas refineries. Good then, it's not me doing sonething wrong, it's a game design)

[Meewec]

Originally posted by Mistfox:

You don't really need too much of it, a good rule of thumb is one exotic materials building (motes, crystals, gas) supports one max upgraded building, so plan for a 50/50 split.

Don't use the natural mining buildings, they only give 1 resource compared to the 2 from manufactured so you need 2 just to support 1 building. They do suck up 10 minerals though so keep an eye on your mining colonies.

the natural ones give 2 resources also. the only one i'd argue not doing the natural one over the refinery one is crystals if you got the correct archaology site

[Stoinker666]

Even refinery planets don't produce neraly enough in the endgame. I have 4 planets dedicated for special resources and about 2-3 resource buildings on each of my other 17 planets and I still have to make monthly trades of like 14 motes, crystals and gas on the market.

The refinery buildings should gefenetly be upgradable, right now they just become a waste of a building slot in the endgame, since they only give you ONE job (or was it 2 jobs that produce 1 resource each?).

[Botji]

Originally posted by Xepep:

Originally posted by Mistfox:

You don't really need too much of it, a good rule of thumb is one exotic materials building (motes, crystals, gas) supports one max upgraded building, so plan for a 50/50 split.

This means for every planet full of research labs I need a planet full of gas refineries. Good then, it's not me doing sonething wrong, it's a game design)

I have to ask but do you actually have a situation where you have a planet full of tier 3 labs or are you just making it up because you have a few labs upgraded to tier 3 and think its exaggerated that you would need that much gas buildings to fuel a planet full of them?

Asking because even if you start a lab planet early, by the time its full of tier 1 labs you are pretty much at the end of the tech tree unless you sacrifice everything and do some magic with the resources of your empire so you can resettle loads and loads of pops to your lab planet while still somehow maintaining your economy.

It just seems like either a super crazy all in on research where you completely wreck your economy and dont even keep a single corvette as defense just to boost up a planet full of tier 3 labs fast enough for it to matter or a fictional "what if" scenario.

On the + side pops/stations/governors tend to have some bonuses to resources produced so you often get more than the 2 gas per refinery and 1-2 whatever from the space mining so you wouldnt really need a full planet of them to supply a full tier 3 lab planet and instead of forcing tier 3 labs you would be better off making more tier 2 labs instead, tier 3 labs are 8 jobs while 2 tier 2 labs are 10 jobs for the same gas cost, being space efficient comes at a extra cost.

[iamoutofnames]

Originally posted by Botji:

I have to ask but do you actually have a situation where you have a planet full of tier 3 labs or are you just making it up because you have a few labs upgraded to tier 3 and think its exaggerated that you would need that much gas buildings to fuel a planet full of them?

Dedicated research planets are a thing, if I find good sized planet with positive research modifier I'll seriously consider making it one. I think it's worth the price, stacking governor and planet modifiers on top of ton of research combined with colony type...
It's costly, but it all adds up to a nice bonus.

[Nightmyre]

Also bear in mind you can get up to +5 from each of the trading AIs (XuraCorp, etc...)

That usually lasts me well in to the mid-game, at which point I just have so much energy flowing in that I can afford to buy them from the market if need be.

[Mistfox]

Originally posted by Meewec:

the natural ones give 2 resources also. the only one i'd argue not doing the natural one over the refinery one is crystals if you got the correct archaology site

Odd, I remember it as one, which was why I tore them down since I needed the much higher production. Unless you were talking about the habitats one? I was referring to the planets one, they only give one per, habitats one give 2 per I think.

[Nightmyre]

Building over the resource gives you access to the unique building for the resource, which produces the same on habitats as it does on stations.

Regardless of whether it's over the resource or not, you can still build the non-unique ones, which is the one you're referring to.

[Mistfox]

Originally posted by Nightmyre:

Building over the resource gives you access to the unique building for the resource, which produces the same on habitats as it does on stations.

Regardless of whether it's over the resource or not, you can still build the non-unique ones, which is the one you're referring to.

And I remember switching over to the non-unique ones because the unique ones had only half the production, despite the upkeep penalty. I went to check and now they are equal so I'm not sure if i remembered wrongly or they changed something.

Edit: Found out the problem, there are different levels of deposits, some give 1, some give 2 or 3 all the way to 5. If you got the 1 deposit, don't bother, your building slot is more important than 10 minerals.

[MissedHurry]

Originally posted by Mistfox:

You don't really need too much of it...

Ehhh..

Originally posted by Stinker666:

Even refinery planets don't produce neraly enough in the endgame. I have 4 planets dedicated for special resources and about 2-3 resource buildings on each of my other 17 planets and I still have to make monthly trades of like 14 motes, crystals and gas on the market.

Yeah, this is me. My last game, I was already up to 25 planets colonized by the start of the end game. I got clever about choosing planets that specifically had lots and lots of business district slots so I could keep creating housing for all the unemployed people who weren't working the refineries, and then per another player's suggestion, added commercial buildings to the refinery planets, since those create 5 clerk jobs each.

Mistfox, when you say you don't need that much of it, are you taking into account all the exotic resource edicts that are available and get more expensive as the game goes on? To the OP, I'd suggest doing what you can to get your edict duration time increased, so you spend less exotics on those.

Lastly, scoop up all the exotics that you can rarely build anything with: Living Metal, ZRO, Dark Matter - The Stellaris Wiki says that the living metal is only good for that one mega-construction edict, so cash in the surplus for the other exotics you need.

[Mistfox]

Originally posted by MissedHurry:

Mistfox, when you say you don't need that much of it, are you taking into account all the exotic resource edicts that are available and get more expensive as the game goes on? To the OP, I'd suggest doing what you can to get your edict duration time increased, so you spend less exotics on those.

I don't use those often, the scaling cost isn't worth it in the long run, I rather build fleet with the rares. As you said, it keeps getting more and more expensive so it is better to not use them than to get dependent on them. Then run out. Then have your empire crash and burn. They work better as emergency get out of jail free cards than common use items

[Botji]

Originally posted by iamoutofnames:

Originally posted by Botji:

I have to ask but do you actually have a situation where you have a planet full of tier 3 labs or are you just making it up because you have a few labs upgraded to tier 3 and think its exaggerated that you would need that much gas buildings to fuel a planet full of them?

Dedicated research planets are a thing, if I find good sized planet with positive research modifier I'll seriously consider making it one. I think it's worth the price, stacking governor and planet modifiers on top of ton of research combined with colony type...
It's costly, but it all adds up to a nice bonus.

You need to re-read what I wrote, never said anything about not using research planets. I question the need for a research planet full of tier 3 labs as the time to get enough pops to work them will take longer than the average time to research 'all' techs in the game.

[MissedHurry]

Originally posted by Mistfox:

Originally posted by MissedHurry:

Mistfox, when you say you don't need that much of it, are you taking into account all the exotic resource edicts that are available and get more expensive as the game goes on? To the OP, I'd suggest doing what you can to get your edict duration time increased, so you spend less exotics on those.

I don't use those often, the scaling cost isn't worth it in the long run, I rather build fleet with the rares. As you said, it keeps getting more and more expensive so it is better to not use them than to get dependent on them. Then run out. Then have your empire crash and burn. They work better as emergency get out of jail free cards than common use items

I don't know.... all the shield, armor and weapons edict boosts are +25%, and the Terraforming Gases edict cuts down terraforming time by 50% - without it, it seems to take forever to transform a planet - I mean, if that kind of thing is important to you in your game. I like to keep my habitable worlds spawn rate low (as per suggestions to keep end game lag reduced), and then terraform the planets I want based on strategic location (what resources does the planet have), and cost ( I discovered recently it costs less to terraform planets that are more similar to your homeworld climate).