Would you rather spend a civic slot or the first ascension perk?

[BanDHMO]

We've been discussing raiding in another thread and since there are two ways to raid, either by being Barbaric Despoilers civic or by later choosing the Nihilistic Acquisition ascension perk, which are relatively close in what they give you, the question comes up, which one actually costs more.

I don't have a strong opinion either way. On one hand, you only get 3 civics, but more perks. They don't get unlocked until later, though, and many perks I consider must-haves. The ability to build megastructures, colossus, two transcendence perks are what makes the game worth playing for me. The only civic I consider a must-have is Distinguished Admiralty, which leaves two more.

So, would you rather give up from your build a civic or a perk, and why?

[Meewec]

i view ascension perks(especially the first one) as more important than civics but i also only have one civ i've made that uses barbaric despoiler.

[BanDHMO]

Originally posted by Meewec:

i view ascension perks(especially the first one) as more important than civics but i also only have one civ i've made that uses barbaric despoiler.

What do you use your first perk for? I tend to let mine sit open until I can get Voidborne, because there doesn't seem to be very good choices for the first one, but it sounds like you found one that's very valuable to your strategy.

[Meewec]

technological ascendancy every time. faster research speed plus rare techs show up more often

[BanDHMO]

Interesting. Is it the +10% that's important to you or the rare tech change increase? I passed it by because through the game, there seem to be so many things that give +x% to research, that another +10 didn't seem like a big deal to me.

[Lady Crimson (RIP)]

It depends a lot on what your other civic would be, in my case the civic tends to be more valuable in what it gives. Though there are certainly a lot of worthwhile ascension perks.

Generally speaking I don't bother with the raiding mechanic at all though, since I prefur just conquering outright.

[BanDHMO]

Originally posted by Lady Crimson:

It depends a lot on what your other civic would be, in my case the civic tends to be more valuable in what it gives. Though there are certainly a lot of worthwhile ascension perks.

Generally speaking I don't bother with the raiding mechanic at all though, since I prefur just conquering outright.

What are your civics that are too valuable to lose?

I wrote above, I tend to always get Admiralty, because there are relatively few ship effectiveness modifiers, but other than that I'm relatively on the fence. Slave Guilds or Syncretic Evolution are both good if not warring, but when I tried to take them while being very aggressive, I always ran out of free pops to work research and factories, so I no longer take them. Everything else seems to give small bonuses here and there. Police State is my second choice at the moment because extra unity feels harder to get by other means.

[Malaficus Shaikan]

Yeah i read that topic.

I think that unless you want to join federation your beter off with: Barbaric Despoilers.
There are useally 9 to 10 usefull perks. (Which Nihilistic Acquisition is one off.)
But most civic's are from a gameplay point of view compleetly worthless.
There are very few good civic's.
Barbaric Despoilers lose the ability to join federations but gain the ability to raid and abduct.
Federation arent worth the dirt beneath you feet right now.
They might be when the dlc comes out but right now there a hassle.
And players ignore the gameplay rules and make unoffical alliance's anyway.
So being unable to join federation only means something if you play online and even then it means very little.

Raiding empire's for pop and resourses is a usefull tool for weaking future conquest.
Not a substainable income.
More of a quick cash grab then a steady pay check.
Gameplay is 90% the same as other empire's.
You lose more as inward perfect or driven exterminators then as Barbaric Despoilers.

To me atleast:
Most civic's are worthless.
Very few accauly give you something worth getting and for the most part there just flavor text.
In compairsion only half the perks are worthless.
The other half is accauly good.

So if i was in your shoes.
I would pick Barbaric Despoilers for the simple reason that perks are too valueable to waste.
Beside if i pick either Barbaric Despoilers or Nihilistic Acquisition i am playing as a conqueror.
So i woudnt care for diplomacy anyway.

Originally posted by BanDHMO:

What are your civics that are too valuable to lose?

I wrote above, I tend to always get Admiralty, because there are relatively few ship effectiveness modifiers, but other than that I'm relatively on the fence. Slave Guilds or Syncretic Evolution are both good if not warring, but when I tried to take them while being very aggressive, I always ran out of free pops to work research and factories, so I no longer take them. Everything else seems to give small bonuses here and there. Police State is my second choice at the moment because extra unity feels harder to get by other means.

I suggest you try the following build: Barbaric Despoilers, slave guild, feudal empire.
Raid and conquer with it.
Release conquered planets as vassals.
While your vassals are busy fixing there planets you can focus on your main worlds.
You can always intergrate or release them later.
Barbaric Despoilers for the raiding cause bell and reqruitment fleets(aka abduction fleets)
Slave guilds automate's the slave to citizen ratio keep your slave pop well under you control.
In combination with fanatic autoriatian you wont have economy problems unless you really really try to get them.
Feudal empire's is mostly to get some use out of vassals.

[Meewec]

Originally posted by BanDHMO:

Interesting. Is it the +10% that's important to you or the rare tech change increase? I passed it by because through the game, there seem to be so many things that give +x% to research, that another +10 didn't seem like a big deal to me.

i like it for both, the earlier you can get the bonuses to research speed the faster your tech lead will happen and some of the rare techs are very nice to get as soon as you can or are important to try to get to show up late game especially if you're trying to get megastructures going

[Malaficus Shaikan]

Look what i found:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kki1DETzzzU

Your question answered by someone who knows alot of the game.

[Evilgenius]

Originally posted by Meewec:

i view ascension perks(especially the first one) as more important than civics but i also only have one civ i've made that uses barbaric despoiler.

For me it is the exact opposite, the 2 civic are far more important then the first set of ascension perks.

Civic generally give a bigger and more substantial bonus then the ascension perks. But i will concede that most of this is personal preference.

[BanDHMO]

He makes an interesting point about the end game, though he doesn't seem to be taking it to its logical conclusion. Asking why you'd ever go to war during late game with 100k fleet just to get 500 minerals from the Plunder CB. By the same token, how would stealing pops hold up during late game when the price of a war goes up?

Late game taking longer to secure the battlefields, reduction of bombardment by planetary shields, having to break up your fleet in chunks of 100 points and travel to raid multiple worlds at once, and farther travel to even get to fight would reduce the efficiency of raiding wars compared to earlier. At the same time, proliferation of habitats, growth tech and robot factories would increase the growth of your pops by normal means, making raid spoils less valuable.

Seems like it may not scale quite as nicely as I previously imagined, although it's not useless, still scales somewhat.