Stop Pops from Taking Wrong Job?

[Doktor Nik]

My robot workers species has bonuses to food and mineral output; my biological species does not. The game automatically moves my biological pops to farmers/miners (no bonus), and my robotic species to clerks (no bonus).

Can this be reversed so I benefit from the bonuses I designed the species with?

[Doktor Nik]

Failing this, is there some documentation listing which species prioritize taking which jobs over other species, so I can properly plan?

[HugsAndSnuggles]

only if you don't mind reding through game files

Stellaris\common\pop_jobs

Also, wiki[stellaris.paradoxwikis.com] has a basic idea, but not necessarily accurate.

[MaceX]

This is just a thought and have not tried it. The game seems to consider food and material jobs as higher priority than clerk jobs by default. But if you mark the clerk job as a priority job, would it put the bio species there first? I don't believe this will have much effect on game as long as you are keeping unemployment and available jobs as minimum.

[Doktor Nik]

I'm not exactly sure how these files are written, but It looks like the game tries to line up traits to jobs so you get the right bonuses.

It looks like robots always get higher priority than bios. Maybe because clerks come first in line, the robots fill up the clerk jobs first.

[pipo.p]

I think you're right. As a rule of thumb, dumb robots and slaves have (much) higher priority for worker jobs. Also, proles and pre-sapients compete with skilled (strong, ingenious, etc) pops.

According to the file, and if I'm not wrong, the explanation for your situation should be that you somehow allowed your robots to become servants. A servant is a worker special status (like a slave is). Whereas slaves are prioritized for hard labor and hardly can be clerks, servants are deprioritized from any worker job. I don't use them and I can only guess they are better left unemployed to attend their masters and produce amenities (and perhaps some can become specialists as entertainers). This should explain why your robots are getting expelled from their miner and farmer jobs. The fact that they become clerks however can only be explained if there is some hidden deprioritization factor for clerk jobs (to explain why non skilled biotas become miner or farmer, and not clerk). I believe that the default behaviour, given an homogenous population, is to prioritize raw resources over clerk jobs, indeed.

Perhaps, revising your policy towards robots, or upgrading to sapient robots should fix this?
What are your policies on that matter? What do the tooltips read like?

Just read the priority factors (multipliers) for miners (the first three are all exclusive to each other):
- dumb/shackled robot: 200
- dumb/shackled robot + Droid Workers: 2
- can_take_servant_job: 0.25
- default (as I guess, sapient robots and biotas alike): 1

Now for clerks (the first two are exclusive to each other):
- dumb/shackled robot: 2
- can_take_servant_job: 0.1
- robot with domestic protocoles activated (trait): 1.5
- default: 1

Specialization trait factors are between 0.5 and 2, and can't make it for the difference between 0.25 and 2 (or 200)

[Doktor Nik]

AFAIK, robots can take servant jobs by default. It is "servitude" type of slavery, which they start out as (but you can set your government policy on this matter). I think you have to research a certain tech before robots can be clerks, but I don't remember what it is off the top of my head.
Not sure why servant robots get de-prioritized, as servants are unemployed pops in servitude. Maybe something to do with a servant robot being better than an unemployed non-servant.

So "can_take_servant_job" 0.25 for miners is higher than 0.1 for clerks, so shouldn't they be miners instead of clerks? I thought it was the "dumb/shackled robot + droid workers: 2" that was being applied. 2 being higher than the bio pops, so the robots win out.

Anyway, with all that said, I have since done the synthetic ascension, so everyone is a robot now... and pretty much ruined the game by accidentally setting everyone to utopian living standards, throwing my economy in to ruins.

I guess at the end of the day, it would have been nice to know before I started to have my bio pops bonused for minerals/energy and my robots for unity/amenities instead of the other way around. I assumed bio/bot weighting was equal, and the bonus traits would dictate who gets what job, but it isn't so.

[lPaladinl]

Originally posted by MaceX:

This is just a thought and have not tried it. The game seems to consider food and material jobs as higher priority than clerk jobs by default. But if you mark the clerk job as a priority job, would it put the bio species there first? I don't believe this will have much effect on game as long as you are keeping unemployment and available jobs as minimum.

This doesn't sound accurate to me.

Clerk and Artisan jobs have higher priority because they're specialist jobs. Specialist jobs always take priority over basic labor from farmers, technicians, and miners.

As to which takes priority within the sphere of specialist jobs, I have no idea.

Farmers definitely do not have any priority over specialist jobs like Clerks in any playthrough I've had.

[pipo.p]

Originally posted by lPaladinl:

Farmers definitely do not have any priority over specialist jobs like Clerks in any playthrough I've had.

In English Stellaris, Clerks are the administrative workers.

Originally posted by Phoenix Khaotica:

I think you have to research a certain tech before robots can be clerks, but I don't remember what it is off the top of my head.

It's in my post: you have to research Droid Workers: instead of been kept in brute force jobs (weight 200), robots (droids) can now be employed in all worker jobs (that is, technicians (2) and clerks (1), on top of brute force(2))

Originally posted by Phoenix Khaotica:

Not sure why servant robots get de-prioritized, as servants are unemployed pops in servitude.

You answer yourself! Servants should be either un-employed, or else have a special job, and they get de-prioritized from all other jobs (I still have to play with them but I remember I saw servant jobs in some A.I. empire).

Originally posted by Phoenix Khaotica:

So "can_take_servant_job" 0.25 for miners is higher than 0.1 for clerks, so shouldn't they be miners instead of clerks?

Sure, but biotas get 1. If somehow the game (or your settings) has less priority for clerks, biotas will be farmers and miners before being clerks. If you have enough biotas, robots are removed from these jobs. Next time try providing figures to be sure of what happened.

Originally posted by Phoenix Khaotica:

I thought it was the "dumb/shackled robot + droid workers: 2" that was being applied. 2 being higher than the bio pops, so the robots win out.

Yes, only all worker jobs are now considered near equally by them. It's why I'd think that Droid Workers doesn't explain alone what happened to you.

Originally posted by Phoenix Khaotica:

I assumed bio/bot weighting was equal, and the bonus traits would dictate who gets what job, but it isn't so.

Things were fuzzy for me as well. Thanks to you, I understand better.
Now, I will monitor my jobs in detail, to understand rather than to optimize (I like when things are fuzzy at a low-level, that helps me feeling like I'm not playing a gigantic chess).

What I lack for a more comprehensive understanding are:
- are factors additive or real factors?
- are there "hidden" weights?
- do jobs have the same weights (aren't clerk less favoured by default)?
- how a worker may be elected to a specialist job?

More file peering, I guess.

[corisai]

Originally posted by pipo.p:

Just read the priority factors (multipliers) for miners (the first three are all exclusive to each other):
- dumb/shackled robot: 200
- dumb/shackled robot + Droid Workers: 2
- can_take_servant_job: 0.25
- default (as I guess, sapient robots and biotas alike): 1

Now for clerks (the first two are exclusive to each other):
- dumb/shackled robot: 2
- can_take_servant_job: 0.1
- robot with domestic protocoles activated (trait): 1.5
- default: 1

Specialization trait factors are between 0.5 and 2, and can't make it for the difference between 0.25 and 2 (or 200)

Paradoxes... Making Droid tech inferior to Robots...

Thank you, it's solves a lot why I saw such idioty in my last games.

[MaceX]

Originally posted by lPaladinl:

Originally posted by MaceX:

This is just a thought and have not tried it. The game seems to consider food and material jobs as higher priority than clerk jobs by default. But if you mark the clerk job as a priority job, would it put the bio species there first? I don't believe this will have much effect on game as long as you are keeping unemployment and available jobs as minimum.

This doesn't sound accurate to me.

Clerk and Artisan jobs have higher priority because they're specialist jobs. Specialist jobs always take priority over basic labor from farmers, technicians, and miners.

As to which takes priority within the sphere of specialist jobs, I have no idea.

Farmers definitely do not have any priority over specialist jobs like Clerks in any playthrough I've had.

Artisan are specialist jobs. I believe Clerks are the Jobs on the low level that are created by creating CIty District. You have the Farmers, Miners, Technician, and I believe the other is the clerk.

[pipo.p]

Well, I wouldn't say they are that inferior, if I understand well, don't take weights for final score.

They are just:

1) less prioritized than before as compared to biotas, still more prioritized than them: that should change anything except perhaps if you have very, very adapted biotas (like both very strong and industrious), but I'm not even sure yet (because if weights are multiplicative (1*1.x*1.x < 2*1.x, depending on x) and if they are additive (1+1.x+1.x > 2 + 1.x, likely).

2) now as easily technicians and clerks as they are miners and farmers. Again, a both thrifty and charismatic biota should still win over a dumb robot (Droid Workers has no influence on that), but not over a robot with domestic protocols... (that's a guess, if factored weights are respectively: 2.25 / 2 / 3). Like wise, a both very strong and ingenious biota should still win over a dumb robot but not over a superconductive robot (2.4 / 2 / 4).

Before researching Droid Workers, non-servant robots are always better than biotas for miner and farmer jobs: 200+ > any other factor.

After researching Droid Workers, things are more like they use to be for clerks and technicians from the start, and specialization traits come into play:
basic biota < dumb, non-servant droid worker = industrious biota
dumb, non-servant, strong, efficient protocols droid worker < industrious, very strong, robust biota
(if weights factor)

If droid workers happen to be more or less on par with your organic pops, that means that they should start working as technicians and clerks, depending on the robot/biota ratio. I can figure a potentially big move/swap concerning these jobs the moment the research is completed, if your biotas are better suit for mining or farming and robots (droids now) are a minority.

[Doktor Nik]

Yeah, clerks are worker jobs. They also work in commercial zones (starting at 5 jobs/building; great for getting those extra unemployed pops to work).

The worker jobs from left to right are: clerks, technicians, miners, farmers, soldiers... but clerk jobs always fill up last, so they must have a hidden negative factor.

[corisai]

Originally posted by pipo.p:

1) less prioritized than before as compared to biotas.

^^

This is making them inferior. As I TIRED to remove my miner-bots (+15%) and farmer-bots (+15%) from not only clerk & technician jobs, but also (!) specialist like refinery worker or enforcer, even while my bio-pops have +5% output, so logically robots should never be refinerers/technicians.

[corisai]

Originally posted by Phoenix Khaotica:

but clerk jobs always fill up last, so they must have a hidden negative factor.

Clerk job is seems to be tied with amenitites balacnce. Because with lack of them or ~0 in total I saw how resettled worker became clerk and not miner / technician. But with positive amenitites they're quite reluctant to became clerk, yes.

[pipo.p]

Thank you for the information. By "hidden" I understand that there is no weight in workers_jobs that explains this reluctancy.