When you see a fanatical xenophobe fallen empire, purge them

[Tamasin]

No matter what ethics you have, kill them. Purge them with vengeance. For if you do not, they will awaken and attack you and your allies. Just when you're trying to protect the galaxy from dimensional invaders. Then everyone gets purged. So do yourself a favor and kill them first. Nobody will miss them anyway.

[Meewec]

Originally posted by APhoenixSoaring:

Originally posted by Meewec:

they don't always awaken, especially if you've got all five on the map, then there's only a one in four chance of the xenophobes waking up if a fallen empire wakes up at all.

i think you could theoretically get four fallen empires to wake up in one game.

No I don't think so, I think 3 is max, if you include enigmatic ancient machines as an FE.

i was thinking a war in heaven triggering, so that's two. then if the special triggers can still happen despite fallens being awakened already you should be able to crack a holy world to get the holy guardians to wake up and the contingency should wake up the machines.

[corisai]

Originally posted by iamoutofnames:

Chaos is fanatic militarist Barbaric Despoilers.

O_O Shroud obviously IS Warp (=Chaos) there is more then enough hints plus Great Four, so Chaos is 100% F Spiritualist + Auth (as chaos always want for a new slaves). Do you really played Stellaris?

Originally posted by iamoutofnames:

Eldar... maybe inward perfection?

No offensive wars? ELDAR?! O_O

Originally posted by dennis.danilov:

Imperium would be hard because it's both Fanatic Xenophobe and Divine Mandate.

Not so. Priests are speaking about God-Emperor rulling the mankind... We all know the truth ;)

[SievertChaser]

Originally posted by corisai:

Not so. Priests are speaking about God-Emperor rulling the mankind... We all know the truth ;)

I smell heresy.

[corisai]

Sure but for me Imperium is Xenophobic & Authoritarian & Spiritualist.

Why minor xenophobic? They're don't mind to enslave and use other races even if this is very tricky practice. In stellaris minor Xenophobic is already enough for that + Imperium can't be FP as it HAVE some diplomacy around.

Why not Militarists? Because major of population isn't anyway related to military and more like slaves. Cadia was an unque fortress world, not everyday practice like it should be in true militaristic society. Plus in many books - common people of Imperium prefer to run away in face of alien enemy instead of grabbing gun and going into militia like it would be in any real militaristic society.

P.S. Plus we need Authoritarian to purge own pops and we all know how much Imperium like to do it :)

[iamoutofnames]

Originally posted by corisai:

Originally posted by iamoutofnames:

Chaos is fanatic militarist Barbaric Despoilers.

O_O Shroud obviously IS Warp (=Chaos) there is more then enough hints plus Great Four, so Chaos is 100% F Spiritualist + Auth (as chaos always want for a new slaves). Do you really played Stellaris?

Originally posted by iamoutofnames:

Eldar... maybe inward perfection?

No offensive wars? ELDAR?! O_O

I was thinking options for creating player races, limited by empire creation options. If you want to make total conversion mod so you can turn crisis and FE into 40k races, then Holy Guardian would be closest Eldar substitute with holy worlds as their maiden worlds.

As for chaos... Iron Warriors are NOT spiritualists, much less fanatic ones. Neither are Nigh Lords. Representing entire chaos with one empire is impossible, just like representing all imperial organizations.

[corisai]

Originally posted by iamoutofnames:

I was thinking options for creating player races, limited by empire creation options. If you want to make total conversion mod so you can turn crisis and FE into 40k races, then Holy Guardian would be closest Eldar substitute with holy worlds as their maiden worlds.

Xenophobic + Spiritualists + Egalitarian. Spiritualist because you know their latest backstory changes :)

I was REALLY surprised from your pick as Inward Perfection is too limiting in Stellaris.

And Eldar definitely not Fallen Empire level of power. This is Necron place in WH40k.

Originally posted by iamoutofnames:

As for chaos... Iron Warriors are NOT spiritualists, much less fanatic ones. Neither are Nigh Lords.

You're trying to say that they would refuse to admit daemons existance? They ARE still praying to Chaos even if doing so in very utilitary way.

[iamoutofnames]

Originally posted by corisai:

Xenophobic + Spiritualists + Egalitarian. Spiritualist because you know their latest backstory changes :)

I was REALLY surprised from your pick as Inward Perfection is too limiting in Stellaris.

And Eldar definitely not Fallen Empire level of power. This is Necron place in WH40k.

I was thinking craftworld eldar instead of Ynnari, maybe that explains my pick. They meddle in outside affairs only when they have to, but since they are going extinct... it's quite often.

And just to nitpick, Eldar are by definition a Fallen Empire. :P

Originally posted by corisai:

You're trying to say that they would refuse to admit daemons existance? They ARE still praying to Chaos even if doing so in very utilitary way.

They refuse to pray or worship chaos gods or demons, as counterpart of fanatic religious Wordbearers. They summon demons with rituals but only to bind them in their war machines to be used in battle, if they are "blessed" with chaos mutations they rip that part of their body off and replace it with cybernetics, they USE chaos, not worship it. Iron Warriors are fanatic materialists for sure.

Night Lords are much the same, they use torment and terror they inflict as form of currency in dealing with warp entities, trading it for power. Maybe normal materialist + fanatic militarist for them.

[Malaficus Shaikan]

Originally posted by corisai:

No offensive wars? ELDAR?! O_O

Technicly speaking pest control isnt war :P

Eldar are from my point of view:
Goverment:
Oligarchi:
Most craftworlds are ruled by a coucil.
Sometimes a king.

Civic's:
Life-Seeded: Eldar have been created by the old ones as weapons against the necron.
Warrior Culture: War comes natural to them.
They are very good at it(being designed for it and all.)
Barbaric Despoilers:
When you think of eldar you think of raids.
Craftworld, corsair or dark eldar they all raid.
Xenophobe: They see the rest of the galaxy as prey or tools.
Not people.
That sound very xenophobe to me.
Fanatic Militarist: Eldar are natural driven to war.
Alot of craftworld eldar take the path of the wanderer.
Fight in a few thousent wars before going home.
This is consider nothing more then an eldar working out his youthful nature and becoming a responable adult.
Let me stress that point:
Going to war is considered entire natural by craftworld eldar.
The "nicest" of eldar.
The rest never "outgrows" the desire for bloodshed.

Traits:
Venerable: Eldar natural get thousends of years old.
Not a thousend.
Thousends as in multiple.
Veneralble is the closes thing we have to long life without immortality.
Eldar do die of old age but it take thousends of years.
Eldread is over 10k and still in his prime by all acounts.
Granted he is a farseer and a powerful one so he might live longer due to warp influence then accauly natural eldar age but still for an eldar a thousend years is the same a decade to us
Slow breeder: When you live for thousends of years you woudnt be in a hurry to start a family.
And for craftworld eldar soulstones are in limeted supplies and with every eldar at the risk of being eaten by slaanesh.
Putting a serious limet on how many people a crafworld can support.

Yes i am aware of the multiple adding over the course of pregancy crap but i will ignore that part of the lore as hard as sjw ignore reality.

[SievertChaser]

Originally posted by iamoutofnames:

Maybe normal materialist + fanatic militarist for them.

Hm. Interesting point. The Warp is much more mundane in Wh40k then the Shroud in Stellaris, which is really messing with the terms we're trying to frame this in.

[SievertChaser]

Originally posted by Malaficus Shaikan:

as hard as sjw ignore reality.

And this is how the thread died, with a thunderous flame war.

[corisai]

Originally posted by Malaficus Shaikan:

Fanatic Militarist: Eldar are natural driven to war.

F. Militarists is society like Sparta, Mongol Horde, like Heinlein "Starship Troopers". Society that as whole (!) praise army and war.

And Eldar are quite scared by Path of Exarch as it's one-way road. Some BL books had mention that completely peaceful craftworlds are existing somewhere in very distant areas of galaxy.

Compare Eldar with Orks - orks living with war, going with a burning passion into fierce battle, having all their economy based on making gunz. A LOT of gunz.

Do you really think they're similiar F.Militarists?

[Malaficus Shaikan]

Originally posted by corisai:

Originally posted by Malaficus Shaikan:

Fanatic Militarist: Eldar are natural driven to war.

F. Militarists is society like Sparta, Mongol Horde, like Heinlein "Starship Troopers". Society that as whole (!) praise army and war.

And Eldar are quite scared by Path of Exarch as it's one-way road. Some BL books had mention that completely peaceful craftworlds are existing somewhere in very distant areas of galaxy.

Compare Eldar with Orks - orks living with war, going with a burning passion into fierce battle, having all their economy based on making gunz. A LOT of gunz.

Do you really think they're similiar F.Militarists?

Have you seen the dark eldar?
The coarairs?
Craftworld: Alaitoc, Biel-Tan, Saim-Hann, etc?

Yeah there are peaceful craftworlds.
Those are the execption, not the rule.

Craftworld eldar who walk the warrior path seek to master it before swiching path.
They fear getting lost on a path.
That is what a exarch is.
Someone who cant change.
Who is forever stuck(lost) on the path.

Craftworld eldar dont like war because of the risk of execess and loss to eldar life.
But even they have several craftworld with a warrior culture.

Orks dont love war.
They love fighting.
War are fought for a reason/goal.
Orks just want to fight.

Orks are alot harder to make with stellaris ethics.
What ethics would suit suchs a random force of destruction?

Eldar lore:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1SS_JuqksD0

[iamoutofnames]

Originally posted by dennis.danilov:

Hm. Interesting point. The Warp is much more mundane in Wh40k then the Shroud in Stellaris, which is really messing with the terms we're trying to frame this in.

Yeah, terms are getting really messy between stellaris, 40k and real world meanings.

As for warp being mundane, it is and it isn't, depending on who we are talking about. For the Eldar warp is very mundane and real thing that can and must be taken into consideration as much as the material world because of their psychic powers, but for your average imperial citizen it's the literal Hell filled with demons and only by praying to the Emperor can they be protected from it.
Neither deny that warp exists but they view it very differently, Eldar from materialist point of view and Imperium from spiritualist.



This thread is now very much 40k thread.

[MightyFox]

By the time they awaken, you should be approaching 60-70k fleet power yourself, with at least 2 fleets. I often engage them with supporting citadels, and hold them off until my tech is high enough to launch an offensive. They aren't that difficult to deal with. If you think one awakening empire is bad, try dealing with A War in Heaven. I got one of those, AND a contigency crises. That was a fun game, even if The Contingentcy won.

[Garrett]

Originally posted by Meewec:

they don't always awaken, especially if you've got all five on the map, then there's only a one in four chance of the xenophobes waking up if a fallen empire wakes up at all.

i think you could theoretically get four fallen empires to wake up in one game.

Wrong. I play with all 5 and 99% of my games its ALWAYS the xenophobe waking up every time.