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Legostyle03 Sep 20, 2019 @ 12:48pm
Best and worst ethics?
What do you think are the best and worst ethics right now?
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Showing 31-45 of 75 comments
Leoscar Sep 21, 2019 @ 4:03pm 
Originally posted by Rtas Vadumee:
Egalitarian because you can't control your pop

Yes, but if you can manage with that they can easily break the game since they have utopian abondance and meritocraty.
Rtas Vadumee Sep 22, 2019 @ 3:45am 
Egalitarian is the least worst imo, it can be good with xenophobe to enslave xenos and have your main specie be a specialist/ruler class. You can also break the game with utopian abondance but i don't like this type of playing
Last edited by Rtas Vadumee; Sep 22, 2019 @ 3:46am
corisai Sep 22, 2019 @ 4:03am 
By "breaking game with utopian" you're about cheat with utopian & 0 CG? If so it's obvious abuse of game flaws. "Honest" utopian aren't anywhere near game-breaking as instead of wasting minerals into CG you could build more ships (plus penetrating weapons are easily countering even massive tech advantage if you still have larger fleet).
Astasia Sep 22, 2019 @ 5:08pm 
Xenophile is easily the most powerful ethos in the game, by far. You can very easily manipulate 90% of the AIs on the map, spam free economic and research treaties, and get the fastest pop growth and colonization with migration treaties and immigration pull/growth. Most games it's zero threat and pure rapid growth.

Likewise Xenophobe is the weakest (not by much) because you have to spend more effort wasting resources on diplomacy or defensive wars. The extra base pop growth doesn't make up for the migration penalties, it just lessons the blow making the ethos not as awful as it otherwise would be. The reduced influence cost on expanding isn't that great. Bee-lining to important systems is easy for any ethos, so if you think about it their bonus is effectively just a mining/research station boost and sprawl acceleration.

Pacifist is decent because of the defense bonuses (they have a higher chance of rolling defensive techs, including starbase upgrades), and because trying to actively expand through war is often (not always) a waste of resources compared to spamming habitats or other internal growth options.

What's best for you though is going to be very subjective and depend on your playstyle. If you don't like abusing the AI and diplomacy and would rather just fight, then pacifist and xenophile wont appeal to you much and the cons of xenophobe might just seem like more bonuses. I typically play xenophobe because it's more engaging.
It depends a lot on combination, I've done a spread sheet base on which ones are best in both minor and fanatic capacities.


Also a lot depends on the point you are in the game.

Materialist for example is incredibly good late game, but near useless at the start save if you go technocrat.

Spiritualist is always useful, unless you go megacorp where it could potentially hurt, but the lack of robotics hurts you later on. (note you can still tecnically use it, but it's not ideal).

Militarist is quite powerful in general, though you have to lean into the conquering play style.

Pascifist is by far the weakest, with little bonuses that are worth even less with their restrictions.

Xenophobe is great early game, with the livestock being a useful perk to phase out farms, but it generally is more tricky to use than an authoritarian empire.. which is a lot more flexible with efficient economics.

Egalitarian is generally good, though it really shines late game when you can afford their utopian abundance.


I think the best one though, depending on your context, is probably Xenophile. If you go fanatic all of the rather costly influence options can potentially become free.. letting you have 10 defensive pacts with no influence payment. It is however entirely dependent on other empires.. so it's really great or not helpful at all depending.

I'd rank them:
Xenophile 1
Militarist 2
Materialist/Spiritualist Both 3 and 4
Authoritiarian 5
Egalitarian 6
Xenophobe 7
Pascifist 8

But a lot depends on context and what you do with it.

That being said, a xenophobe, egalitarian, pascifist empire is a lot of fun as isolationist, beuracrats, with a syncretic sub species of slaves.

It works really nicely on housing and economics.
Last edited by Lady Crimson (RIP); Sep 22, 2019 @ 8:55pm
Originally posted by corisai:
By "breaking game with utopian" you're about cheat with utopian & 0 CG? If so it's obvious abuse of game flaws. "Honest" utopian aren't anywhere near game-breaking as instead of wasting minerals into CG you could build more ships (plus penetrating weapons are easily countering even massive tech advantage if you still have larger fleet).

No, you just need a government that reduces consumer goods usage, like a fanatic materialist and converting everyone into robots. But you really don't even need that to make the ethic useful.

Having city planets make converting minerals into consumers really easy.

Utopian Abundance in general is a pretty nice choice since the happiness and unemployment benefits are both really nice, it makes it so that clerk jobs are no longer needed and can likely eliminate all potential crime.

Breaking the game aside.

The faction influence and specialist bonus are both also really nice. That's science, unity, consumer goods, and alloys.

It's also great to do if you conquer primitive aliens and they are almost all unemployed.. then you switch on utopian abundance for a crazy amount of unity and consumer goods until you the buildings you want.. so long as you deal with the temporary consumer goods short fall.


However, in general, doing Utopian Abundance out of the gate.. rather than later, is a bad idea.
Last edited by Lady Crimson (RIP); Sep 22, 2019 @ 8:54pm
Originally posted by Garrett:
Originally posted by happyscrub:

Ditto. I didn't feel like listing all the modifiers like you didn't.

Nope Hiveminds aren't fine. You are forced to take adaptive or extremely adaptive just to stand a chance. You need to invest heavily into habitability while everyone else start using Robots and has cheap pops which turn into specialists or just plays a Machine empire and beats any organic because of how broken Machine empires are. And then of course 2.3 was a slap in the face for anyone not using Robots because apparently Paradox wants to force everyone to invest into Robots with the new Cybrex Relics and habitability changes.

Hivemind civics are outdated, or simply bandaid and boring civics like "Ascetic".

Rulers have no Agendas, never gain any traits unlike normal organic rulers or even Synth rulers who become immortal and can reax max level aswell.

Overall all the stupid traditions/ effects which are weaker for Hiveminds. No 10 stability from crime lord deal, deviancy is a pain to deal with. Hive district provides 1 more housing but no jobs compared to nexus districts. Maintenance depots don't provide 2 housing like for Machine empires. Planetary prospecting from adaptability tree becomes useless if you turn everything into Hive worlds. Hive worlds are worse than Machine worlds for no reason. Hiveminds end with the weakest lategame growth out of any empire. They have the weakest alloy production. Hiveminds struggle with energy compared to Machines which are literally drowning in Energy all the time.

Just compare Synapse Drones vs Coordinators and you can already see the hilarious unbalance. And even worse, synapse drone jobs are taking immediately for new colonies so if you expand early you will have huge upkeep on the new pops.

You just take the 2 best civics hivemind has: Devouring Swarm and Ascetic and pretty much the optimal and best trait build they can choose.

Anything else than what you took is just garbage and makes Hivemind not playable as a competitive empire.

Even then, simply compare Devouring Swarm vs Driven Assimilator or Determined Exterminator.
And compare non-Genodical Hivemind vs non-Genocidal Machine empire and its painfully obvious just how crap hiveminds really are.
Or compare them to any non-gestalt empire going the synthethic ascencion path. Or just any empire going Bio ascencion and using Robots. They'll all end up with more growth than you and the cheapest pops in the game with Droid slaves.


And even by playing the way you do, Hiveminds still end up being weaker than any other empire in the end. Paradox needs to give Hiveminds a big overhaul just like they did with Machine empires. Especially after Hiveminds got screwed thanks to the 2.3 patch.

Nothing you will say will change legit facts about hive mind being meh.


I mean, if your goto of dealing with habitability with standard empires is sending robots.. then yeah you might run into problems compared to a machine intelligence.

That worked in previous editions, but now you're much better off just finding a reasonable pop to grow through migration treaties.

Personally I find materialists can easilly outdo a machine intelligence in every capacity once they synthetically ascend. Though in fairness that's more of an issue with synthetic ascendacy being too powerful than anything I suppose.

On hiveminds, well, I prefur standard empires so I can't say much for them.. but I will say that Machine intelligences are overrated since people always forget about the intense mineral cost for producing pops.. ontop of energy. Whereas a hivemind only has to use food.

Compare that with machine intelligences for assembly and standard empires using minerals on consumer goods... and a hivemind is quite efficient with its minerals.

Having normal growing pops I always see as superior, but I grab every option I can.
Last edited by Lady Crimson (RIP); Sep 22, 2019 @ 9:02pm
Originally posted by Malaficus Shaikan:
Originally posted by Luzilyo:
i usually go with authoritarian, militarist, materialist. not sure if it's the absolute best (probably isn't) but so far it almost always worked out well for me, so i'd say it's pretty alright.
In my experiance outside of gesstalt empires(Who are currently overpowered)
Fanatic authoritian got the best economy due to slavery and extra worker income and +1 influence.
Militerist gets the no retreat war policy which increases your fleets firepower by suchs amount that any other bonus you get from militerist is just a nice extra.
And those bonuses are good.
Giving cheaper claims and 10% extra firepower.
Fanatic Fanatic authoritian militerist slave guilds is a economic powerhouse.
Massive economy minimal chance at uprising.

Fanatic materialist give 10 increase research speed by default.
Has a materialist only edict that give 10% extra research speed.
Add to this discovery tradition plus Technological Ascendancy and you got 40% increase research speed just for existing.
Only rogue servitors can surpass fanatic materialist in research and even then just barely.

Fanatic Authoritarian doesn't offer a lot better stuff compared to normal authoritarian, so while it's great.. it isn't the best.

I'd say an Authoritarian Fanatic Materialist (technocrat) is great for science, unity, and basically all resources.

Downside is later once you need less worker jobs and more specialist jobs.. and if you go academic instead of caste then authoritarian becomes near useless as an ethic in potential.

Authoritarian/ Spiritualist/ Pascifist is also a really fun economic style, since it's all about having worker jobs.
Last edited by Lady Crimson (RIP); Sep 22, 2019 @ 9:07pm
Pascifist was the best before 2.0 But it lost a lot of its steam when they overhauled planets and got rather marginal bonuses.

For example farms used to be able to get both minerals and unity, the minerals doubling on adjacency bonuses and using both resources on tiles, if you were doing pascifist isolationist empires.

Now it's still okay to go isolationist, but it's generally a lot worse off, so hopefully they get some boosts soon.
Malaficus Shaikan Sep 22, 2019 @ 11:00pm 
Originally posted by Lady Crimson:
Fanatic Authoritarian doesn't offer a lot better stuff compared to normal authoritarian, so while it's great.. it isn't the best.
Accualy:
Authoritarian is worthless without the fanatic part.
It offers way to little.
Fanatic Authoritarian slave guilds offer a massive economy advantage.
But normal Authoritarian offers only 0.5 extra influence and resourses.
Stuff like xenophile and militerist give you good bonuses without the fanatic part.

Same is true for materalist.
Go fanatic of go home.
The basic bonus is just too little to be worth it compaire to the other none fanatic ethic bonuses.
Last edited by Malaficus Shaikan; Sep 22, 2019 @ 11:01pm
HugsAndSnuggles Sep 23, 2019 @ 12:33am 
Originally posted by Malaficus Shaikan:
Accualy:
Authoritarian is worthless without the fanatic part.
It offers way to little.
Fanatic Authoritarian slave guilds offer a massive economy advantage.
But normal Authoritarian offers only 0.5 extra influence and resourses.
You can get by perfectly fine without 4% extra output for workers (which is reduced even more as you advance in tech).

Influence is nice, but there are other things you can get instead, like xenophobe, which will both save you 0.5 influence a month (provided you expand at a ludicrous speed of 1 outpost per 30 months) and increase pop growth (which will beat 4% extra worker output... unless you somehow manage to get like 13 growth).

Originally posted by Malaficus Shaikan:
Same is true for materalist.
Go fanatic of go home.
The basic bonus is just too little to be worth it compaire to the other none fanatic ethic bonuses.
It's not about bonus, it's about technocracy.
In my subjective opinion, by far the best ethic is Materialist - research is the lifeblood of empire progression and increasing the power of your military. Anything that increases the speed of research is a no-brainer.

By far the worst ethic, by a distance of several light-years, is Egalitarian. Who in their right mind would take an ethic that penalizes them for, or worse yet, competely bars them from resettling pops, a basic game mechanic that is flat-out MANDATORY for rapidly developing new colonies and, more importantly, managing the inevitable overcrowding that will occur no matter how much you develop your planets. As fully grown pops will no longer automatically migrate to other colonies, resettlement has now become extremely important for making the most of your empire's combined total population growth. Voluntarily restricting this, with how crucial pops are under the current planet mechanics, is simply asinine.
HugsAndSnuggles Sep 23, 2019 @ 1:02am 
Originally posted by Totally Innocent Chatbot:
Who in their right mind would take an ethic that penalizes them for, or worse yet, competely bars them from resettling pops
Currently, you can resettle perfectly fine, even as f.egalitarian. Only thing that gets penalized to a meaningful degree is OCD.
Malaficus Shaikan Sep 23, 2019 @ 1:22am 
Originally posted by HugsAndSnuggles:
Originally posted by Malaficus Shaikan:
Accualy:
Authoritarian is worthless without the fanatic part.
It offers way to little.
Fanatic Authoritarian slave guilds offer a massive economy advantage.
But normal Authoritarian offers only 0.5 extra influence and resourses.
You can get by perfectly fine without 4% extra output for workers (which is reduced even more as you advance in tech).

Influence is nice, but there are other things you can get instead, like xenophobe, which will both save you 0.5 influence a month (provided you expand at a ludicrous speed of 1 outpost per 30 months) and increase pop growth (which will beat 4% extra worker output... unless you somehow manage to get like 13 growth).

Originally posted by Malaficus Shaikan:
Same is true for materalist.
Go fanatic of go home.
The basic bonus is just too little to be worth it compaire to the other none fanatic ethic bonuses.
It's not about bonus, it's about technocracy.
So you agree with me that Authoritarian isnt good?
My entire arguement is that you need Fanatic Authoritarian to be on par with ethic's like xenophobe or militerist.
Normal Authoritarian isnt worth anything as other ethic's simply surpass it.

As for Fanatic meterialist:
10% research for Fanatic materalist. 10% research for research grants edict. 10% research for fineshing the discovery tradiation tree and 10% research for the tech perk.

That is 40% research bonus.
Now add to this technocracy giving researcher's unity production and you have an empire that can outtech everyone.
There is no doubt that outside of machine empire technocracy is the most overpowered ethic in stellaris at this time.

One of my builds:
Fanatic materalist xenophile technocracy Mechanist Free Haven dictatorship.
This build will make you have titans while the rest are still using destroyers.
Xenophile give 10% extra trade income, keeps xeno's of your back while you are tech rushing and give you accesss to Xeno-Compatibility which in combination with Free Haven will drown you in workers for your jobs.
And if a planet gets full simply forbid growth.

Honeslty only machine empires are stronger.

When i play Fanatic Authoritarian i do i want to roleplay as a galatic conqueror.
If i accauly want to win i go driven assimilators.
Overpowered is an understatement for driven assimilators.
Last edited by Malaficus Shaikan; Sep 23, 2019 @ 1:30am
HugsAndSnuggles Sep 23, 2019 @ 1:37am 
Originally posted by Malaficus Shaikan:
So you agree with me that Authoritarian isnt good?
My entire arguement is that you need Fanatic Authoritarian to be on par with ethic's like xenophobe or militerist.
Of course not. It gives you the most efficient living standard that lets you save a lot of CGs - that's the main reason to take it (slavery access too, provided you're not a xenophobe). Fanatic version doesn't add anything to that.

Originally posted by Malaficus Shaikan:
As for Fanatic meterialist:
...
That is 40% research bonus.
Or you can have 30% without fanatic one. If you're not into synth ascension, (not)having fanatic version bonuses is not that big of a deal.
Last edited by HugsAndSnuggles; Sep 23, 2019 @ 1:42am
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Date Posted: Sep 20, 2019 @ 12:48pm
Posts: 75