Getting Abused by an Awakened Empire.

[void_pilgrim]

Well, I'm about 20+ hours into an ironman game. Recently there was an awakened ascendancy that popped up, but in spite of their aggression towards eveyone, they have left me alone. Just today a second AE popped up close to the first one that seemed more benevolent and I hoped they might start to hash it out between each other and the unbidden sandwiched between them. Sadly that did not hapen.

I had decent relations with the second AE until they decided to demand my subjugation. I refused. Then they declared war on someone I had a defense pact with (which I now regret accepting). This forced me unwillingly into war with them and instead of attacking my dumb allies they declared war on, they decided to pick on me.

My largest fleet in only at 30k and they have a fleet of 130k. I have my game set up that only hyperlanes can only be used, and set up tons of fortresses protecting the two border systems... but regardless of my settings, they just appear where ever they want in the middle of my space and attack me unlimited by the hyperlane travel. Do AE have some type of special warp capabilities? It's already unfair enough that they are 5-6xs stronger than anybody in the galaxy, but they also have the ability to just appear where ever they please?

Does anyone have any advice or do I just grab my ankles and hope for the best?

[Yang]

1) When this kinda thing happens, start a war with another empire, and take care to drag it on for as long as possible. AEs will not demand subjugation if you are at war.

2) As soon as one ship of yours enters FE space they get really triggered and all of their fleets not currently fighting battles will drop whatever they are doing and pursue that ship around. Queue loads of stars and just wait for the war to pass by, hoping your FTL drive isn't much slower than theirs (or they'll catch up) or try and get them to fight a Leviathan.

[Yang]

Originally posted by Army Pea:

The Fallen/Awakened have there own types of FTL tech.

It all depends on their type of attitude.

You have plenty of options when it comes to awakened empires.
Attacking them straight up. Without allies. With a smaller fleet is just the worst option to take.

Before 1.3 Hyperspace was actually about 2x as fast as jump drives, (compare: 7.5 days warmup, v. quick movement (2-3 days at most), no cooldown, as opposed to 15 days warmup, instant movement, 5 days cooldown). Idk about after

[void_pilgrim]

What's the point of the galaxy setup if the AE just ignores it? I unwittingly gave them ANOTHER big advantage over the rest of the board. I wasn't going to complain that the first AE was overpowered, but this new one is vastly overpowered. It is 3xs stronger than the first AE that spawned, and 5-10xs stronger than the rest of us. Sorry, I'm just frustrated. I feel like I've wasted the last week of my life. I regret playing ironman mode because in hindsite I would have never made a defense pact with my neighbors. It seemed like a good idea at the time because we had a couple mutual rivals and the second superpowered AE had not spawned yet.

[Yang]

Originally posted by StonePilgrim:

What's the point of the galaxy setup if the AE just ignores it? I unwittingly gave them ANOTHER big advantage over the rest of the board. I wasn't going to complain that the first AE was overpowered, but this new one is vastly overpowered. It is 3xs stronger than the first AE that spawned, and 5-10xs stronger than the rest of us. Sorry, I'm just frustrated. I feel like I've wasted the last week of my life. I regret playing ironman mode because in hindsite I would have never made a defense pact with my neighbors. It seemed like a good idea at the time because we had a couple mutual rivals and the second superpowered AE had not spawned yet.

I hate myself for not playing Ironmode because I just inevitable use console commands to give myself all techs so I can destroy all FEs and summon the Prethoryn and Unbidden simultaneously 200 years early. Very little satisfaction to be gained from doing this.

[void_pilgrim]

Originally posted by Yang:

Originally posted by StonePilgrim:

What's the point of the galaxy setup if the AE just ignores it? I unwittingly gave them ANOTHER big advantage over the rest of the board. I wasn't going to complain that the first AE was overpowered, but this new one is vastly overpowered. It is 3xs stronger than the first AE that spawned, and 5-10xs stronger than the rest of us. Sorry, I'm just frustrated. I feel like I've wasted the last week of my life. I regret playing ironman mode because in hindsite I would have never made a defense pact with my neighbors. It seemed like a good idea at the time because we had a couple mutual rivals and the second superpowered AE had not spawned yet.

I hate myself for not playing Ironmode because I just inevitable use console commands to give myself all techs so I can destroy all FEs and summon the Prethoryn and Unbidden simultaneously 200 years early. Very little satisfaction to be gained from doing this.

I get this, and it is one of the major reasons why I play in ironman mode... but man, it would be nice if there were 2 or 3 ironman saves to fall back on. There were several things that would have changed this outcome just a couple of in game months before it happened.

1. I made the defense pact with my neighbors.
2. I was seconds from declaring war on another species, but as I was gathering a fleet at their borders the AE subjigated them.
3. I could have accepted subjigation myself (though I doubt I would have done this).

[Yang]

Originally posted by StonePilgrim:

Originally posted by Yang:

I hate myself for not playing Ironmode because I just inevitable use console commands to give myself all techs so I can destroy all FEs and summon the Prethoryn and Unbidden simultaneously 200 years early. Very little satisfaction to be gained from doing this.

I get this, and it is one of the major reasons why I play in ironman mode... but man, it would be nice if there were 2 or 3 ironman saves to fall back on. There were several things that would have changed this outcome just a couple of in game months before it happened.

1. I made the defense pact with my neighbors.
2. I was seconds from declaring war on another species, but as I was gathering a fleet at their borders the AE subjigated them.
3. I could have accepted subjigation myself (though I doubt I would have done this).

Pick a very small empire to do this with. If necessary, release one of your vassals and attack them - this will save you a lot more trouble than it seems. The trouble with this is warscore may grow faster than you are aware, so divide your fleet into parts that are slightly more powerful than your enemy's combined strength, and keep them in port. Feed the occasional no-shields no-armour no-weapons corvette into the enemy's spaceports if need be.

[Fellow]

Attacked some awakened enmpire today to see if I could win it and after I crushed them all his little thralls became my thralls. Conquered half the galaxy in 1 go.

[LAG]

I hate all forms of defensive pacts, federations and guarantee independance.

If your ally is attacked by someone you are forced to help them, you cannot set any demands whatsoever because "only main defender/attacker can set demands", you can't negotiate peace because "only main defender/attacker can" and they always declare war on the weakest bastard.

and that weak runt who has 1% of the military strenght of your pact/fed gets to pick all the good planets and always have huge demands that yuo need to satisfy.

you're basicly paying 1 influence/month to be someone else's ♥♥♥♥♥.


just recently a guy with 2 colonies in our federation got attacked by an AE and he demands all the core planets for himself. As if i would let him have the core planets, let alone work towards giving them to him by fighting an AE to death.

[void_pilgrim]

Originally posted by Fellow:

Attacked some awakened enmpire today to see if I could win it and after I crushed them all his little thralls became my thralls. Conquered half the galaxy in 1 go.

Well you must have been a lot better off than I was. My fleet power was only a fraction of theirs.

Anyways, I hid my fleet and let them pillage my space for awhile. Eventually they moved on and attacked my so called ally. My "ally" got his butt handed to him, he negotiated peace and ceceded most of his planets to the AE. As soon as the war ended, I immediately broke my defense pack, insulted my former ally, and went back home to begin rebuilding. It was a nasty set back, but after all was said and done, I'm still pretty much intact. Sadly, I am surrounded by the AE on two sides, have unbidden encroaching on me, and the original AE is still close by as well. I'm not optomistic I will be able to stay out of their cross hairs for long.

On the up side, the stronger AE is having issues with the unbidden. So, we will see how that goes for him.

[Yang]

Originally posted by LAG:

I hate all forms of defensive pacts, federations and guarantee independance.

If your ally is attacked by someone you are forced to help them, you cannot set any demands whatsoever because "only main defender/attacker can set demands", you can't negotiate peace because "only main defender/attacker can" and they always declare war on the weakest bastard.

and that weak runt who has 1% of the military strenght of your pact/fed gets to pick all the good planets and always have huge demands that yuo need to satisfy.

you're basicly paying 1 influence/month to be someone else's ♥♥♥♥♥.


just recently a guy with 2 colonies in our federation got attacked by an AE and he demands all the core planets for himself. As if i would let him have the core planets, let alone work towards giving them to him by fighting an AE to death.

Try it the other way around. Get in a federation, keep declaring war, give youself the best demands and get the others to brawl it out for you while you focus on other things like colonisation and research. Works quite well, but watch out for evangelising zealots and fanatical purifiers.

[LAG]

Originally posted by Yang:

Try it the other way around. Get in a federation, keep declaring war, give youself the best demands and get the others to brawl it out for you while you focus on other things like colonisation and research. Works quite well, but watch out for evangelising zealots and fanatical purifiers.

true, but that only works if the ai is stronger.

[void_pilgrim]

Well, I thought things turned around for my people after the AE got what he wanted from my ally and left me be... but it just took a turn for the worse.

I rebuilt, and once again became stronger than the rest of the other non-AE races. Then the AEs both got involved fighting with the Unbidden. The 2 AEs (the first one called The Restorers, and the second AE the Blorg).The Unbidden did some decent damage to the Restorers, but the Blorg came in and destroyed the portal. I went in to survey the aftermath and discovered the Restorer's 25 Gaia world was wiped clean with all kinds of awesome stuff in it. I managed to settle on it, and was just about ready to start digging in some roots and gaining some strength so I could actually put up a fight against the 2 giants... Then out of the blue Blorg declared war on me again. This time they demanded all my stuff.... They came in with a bunch of 150k=+ fleets and completely raped my 50k fleet, destroyed my defenses, and are demanding every one of my best planets. I was literally pillaged with no hope or chance of winning.

I don't know what I did to be the one species out of 20 to become the ones they wanted to destroy. I stayed neutral, and although I refused subjegation, I was careful not to piss them off. I guess was just unlucky that I spawned so close to both of them. But, what is frustrating is, there was nothing that I could have possibly done.

At about 30 hours in, this game is toast. They're pillaging everything I worked hard to achieve and they're demands place me out of the game. They are 10-20xs stronger than the rest of the non-AE galaxy combined. No one can oppose them except for the other AE, but those idiots won't do anything.

Seeing as they both the AEs have opposing cultures, I was hoping it would trigger a "War in Heaven" event, but they have never attempted to go to war with each other. Apparently I'm the prime target. Not the other AE, not the 2 giant federations, just little old me.

I know there are those who would dissagree, but the AE needs to seriously be re-balanced. The Blorg awoke with over 300k fleet power when I was still under 30k. They're an unstoppable force in the game that is able to do whatever it wants. The whole galaxy combined could not oppose them. They even destroyed the unbidden's multiple 150k fleets like they were nothing.

I like that the AE are supposed to be very difficult... but the way it played out in this playthrough, they were 100% impossible. This was a situation that was un-balanced and, for me the player, I had no chance of overcoming it. There needs to be some sort of scaling, so that when a Fallen Empires becomes ascendant, they can't just wipe the whole galaxy at will. I was powerless.

Even though I am seriously frustrated and feel like I've wasted the last couple weeks of my life, I am still going to design a new race to play, start another game, and hope that my luck goes better this time. Maybe I just got a really bad roll of the dice this time around. After all, both AEs and the Unbidden all spawned within jumping distance of my systems.

[LAG]

Originally posted by StonePilgrim:

Well, I thought things turned around for my people after the AE got what he wanted from my ally and left me be... but it just took a turn for the worse.

I rebuilt, and once again became stronger than the rest of the other non-AE races. Then the AEs both got involved fighting with the Unbidden. The 2 AEs (the first one called The Restorers, and the second AE the Blorg).The Unbidden did some decent damage to the Restorers, but the Blorg came in and destroyed the portal. I went in to survey the aftermath and discovered the Restorer's 25 Gaia world was wiped clean with all kinds of awesome stuff in it. I managed to settle on it, and was just about ready to start digging in some roots and gaining some strength so I could actually put up a fight against the 2 giants... Then out of the blue Blorg declared war on me again. This time they demanded all my stuff.... They came in with a bunch of 150k=+ fleets and completely raped my 50k fleet, destroyed my defenses, and are demanding every one of my best planets. I was literally pillaged with no hope or chance of winning.

I don't know what I did to be the one species out of 20 to become the ones they wanted to destroy. I stayed neutral, and although I refused subjegation, I was careful not to piss them off. I guess was just unlucky that I spawned so close to both of them. But, what is frustrating is, there was nothing that I could have possibly done.

At about 30 hours in, this game is toast. They're pillaging everything I worked hard to achieve and they're demands place me out of the game. They are 10-20xs stronger than the rest of the non-AE galaxy combined. No one can oppose them except for the other AE, but those idiots won't do anything.

Seeing as they both the AEs have opposing cultures, I was hoping it would trigger a "War in Heaven" event, but they have never attempted to go to war with each other. Apparently I'm the prime target. Not the other AE, not the 2 giant federations, just little old me.

I know there are those who would dissagree, but the AE needs to seriously be re-balanced. The Blorg awoke with over 300k fleet power when I was still under 30k. They're an unstoppable force in the game that is able to do whatever it wants. The whole galaxy combined could not oppose them. They even destroyed the unbidden's multiple 150k fleets like they were nothing.

I like that the AE are supposed to be very difficult... but the way it played out in this playthrough, they were 100% impossible. This was a situation that was un-balanced and, for me the player, I had no chance of overcoming it. There needs to be some sort of scaling, so that when a Fallen Empires becomes ascendant, they can't just wipe the whole galaxy at will. I was powerless.

Even though I am seriously frustrated and feel like I've wasted the last couple weeks of my life, I am still going to design a new race to play, start another game, and hope that my luck goes better this time. Maybe I just got a really bad roll of the dice this time around. After all, both AEs and the Unbidden all spawned within jumping distance of my systems.

You settled a Gaia world, my bet is that that's what ticket them off.

Sure it wasn't some holy world, wildlife preserve or sorts?

if you talk to them you should be able to see what their attitude is, mostly they'll be dismissive and not bother with you.

[void_pilgrim]

Originally posted by LAG:

Originally posted by StonePilgrim:

Well, I thought things turned around for my people after the AE got what he wanted from my ally and left me be... but it just took a turn for the worse.

I rebuilt, and once again became stronger than the rest of the other non-AE races. Then the AEs both got involved fighting with the Unbidden. The 2 AEs (the first one called The Restorers, and the second AE the Blorg).The Unbidden did some decent damage to the Restorers, but the Blorg came in and destroyed the portal. I went in to survey the aftermath and discovered the Restorer's 25 Gaia world was wiped clean with all kinds of awesome stuff in it. I managed to settle on it, and was just about ready to start digging in some roots and gaining some strength so I could actually put up a fight against the 2 giants... Then out of the blue Blorg declared war on me again. This time they demanded all my stuff.... They came in with a bunch of 150k=+ fleets and completely raped my 50k fleet, destroyed my defenses, and are demanding every one of my best planets. I was literally pillaged with no hope or chance of winning.

I don't know what I did to be the one species out of 20 to become the ones they wanted to destroy. I stayed neutral, and although I refused subjegation, I was careful not to piss them off. I guess was just unlucky that I spawned so close to both of them. But, what is frustrating is, there was nothing that I could have possibly done.

At about 30 hours in, this game is toast. They're pillaging everything I worked hard to achieve and they're demands place me out of the game. They are 10-20xs stronger than the rest of the non-AE galaxy combined. No one can oppose them except for the other AE, but those idiots won't do anything.

Seeing as they both the AEs have opposing cultures, I was hoping it would trigger a "War in Heaven" event, but they have never attempted to go to war with each other. Apparently I'm the prime target. Not the other AE, not the 2 giant federations, just little old me.

I know there are those who would dissagree, but the AE needs to seriously be re-balanced. The Blorg awoke with over 300k fleet power when I was still under 30k. They're an unstoppable force in the game that is able to do whatever it wants. The whole galaxy combined could not oppose them. They even destroyed the unbidden's multiple 150k fleets like they were nothing.

I like that the AE are supposed to be very difficult... but the way it played out in this playthrough, they were 100% impossible. This was a situation that was un-balanced and, for me the player, I had no chance of overcoming it. There needs to be some sort of scaling, so that when a Fallen Empires becomes ascendant, they can't just wipe the whole galaxy at will. I was powerless.

Even though I am seriously frustrated and feel like I've wasted the last couple weeks of my life, I am still going to design a new race to play, start another game, and hope that my luck goes better this time. Maybe I just got a really bad roll of the dice this time around. After all, both AEs and the Unbidden all spawned within jumping distance of my systems.

You settled a Gaia world, my bet is that that's what ticket them off.

Sure it wasn't some holy world, wildlife preserve or sorts?

if you talk to them you should be able to see what their attitude is, mostly they'll be dismissive and not bother with you.

It wasn't a holy world. I saw one of those in another game. I actually thought the Restorers would have been the ones that got angry because it was formerly their planet. They had lost it to the Unbidden. I think the Blorg were unhappy for me for refusing subjegation and because there was a lot of border friction. After they wiped out my neighbor they had me surrounded on two sides. I guess it was just a matter of time.

What frustrates me most is just being powerless. I couldn't imagine playing Mario, get to world
8-1, just to have an undodgeable heat seeking goomba hit and kill you no matter what you do.

[Yang]

Originally posted by StonePilgrim:

Well, I thought things turned around for my people after the AE got what he wanted from my ally and left me be... but it just took a turn for the worse.

I rebuilt, and once again became stronger than the rest of the other non-AE races. Then the AEs both got involved fighting with the Unbidden. The 2 AEs (the first one called The Restorers, and the second AE the Blorg).The Unbidden did some decent damage to the Restorers, but the Blorg came in and destroyed the portal. I went in to survey the aftermath and discovered the Restorer's 25 Gaia world was wiped clean with all kinds of awesome stuff in it. I managed to settle on it, and was just about ready to start digging in some roots and gaining some strength so I could actually put up a fight against the 2 giants... Then out of the blue Blorg declared war on me again. This time they demanded all my stuff.... They came in with a bunch of 150k=+ fleets and completely raped my 50k fleet, destroyed my defenses, and are demanding every one of my best planets. I was literally pillaged with no hope or chance of winning.

I don't know what I did to be the one species out of 20 to become the ones they wanted to destroy. I stayed neutral, and although I refused subjegation, I was careful not to piss them off. I guess was just unlucky that I spawned so close to both of them. But, what is frustrating is, there was nothing that I could have possibly done.

At about 30 hours in, this game is toast. They're pillaging everything I worked hard to achieve and they're demands place me out of the game. They are 10-20xs stronger than the rest of the non-AE galaxy combined. No one can oppose them except for the other AE, but those idiots won't do anything.

Seeing as they both the AEs have opposing cultures, I was hoping it would trigger a "War in Heaven" event, but they have never attempted to go to war with each other. Apparently I'm the prime target. Not the other AE, not the 2 giant federations, just little old me.

I know there are those who would dissagree, but the AE needs to seriously be re-balanced. The Blorg awoke with over 300k fleet power when I was still under 30k. They're an unstoppable force in the game that is able to do whatever it wants. The whole galaxy combined could not oppose them. They even destroyed the unbidden's multiple 150k fleets like they were nothing.

I like that the AE are supposed to be very difficult... but the way it played out in this playthrough, they were 100% impossible. This was a situation that was un-balanced and, for me the player, I had no chance of overcoming it. There needs to be some sort of scaling, so that when a Fallen Empires becomes ascendant, they can't just wipe the whole galaxy at will. I was powerless.

Even though I am seriously frustrated and feel like I've wasted the last couple weeks of my life, I am still going to design a new race to play, start another game, and hope that my luck goes better this time. Maybe I just got a really bad roll of the dice this time around. After all, both AEs and the Unbidden all spawned within jumping distance of my systems.

Did you try any of these things:

Originally posted by Yang:

1) When this kinda thing happens, start a war with another empire, and take care to drag it on for as long as possible. AEs will not demand subjugation if you are at war.

2) As soon as one ship of yours enters FE space they get really triggered and all of their fleets not currently fighting battles will drop whatever they are doing and pursue that ship around. Queue loads of stars and just wait for the war to pass by, hoping your FTL drive isn't much slower than theirs (or they'll catch up) or try and get them to fight a Leviathan.

If not, sorry if any of this sounds patronising btw. Anyway do it. Helps a lot.

If you did do this and still got crushed, please tell me in more detail what happened when you tried these strategies, so I can figure out what went wrong and help you while seeing where these guidelines go wrong.