My First Game Ends in "WTF Happened?"

[eFMeral_dEVO]

I was about 40hrs into my first game of Stellaris(Ironman/no DLC) when all of a sudden I lost. If anyone can enlighten me on what exactly happened to trigger the lose condition it would be appreciated.

If i was in any danger of failing, the game did a very poor job of letting me know. It didn't even seem like the war had really started yet. I think I must be missing a key understanding somewhere(other than maybe focusing on my fleets earlier and taking pre-emptive action).

I certainly don't want to start another 40hr game until I've got some clarity.

Thanks!


--------------Game Summary Below---------------

*Human Empire

*Early focus on Technology and Expansion(was being boxed-in early by AI Empires, succesfully made a path out of my corner of the galaxy via outposts and colonization)

*Was asked to join(joined) an Alliance by "Star Fox" empire who shared simalar democratic government. Felt I had no choice as they were very close to my home world, and were "Superior" militaristically. I had not spent much time developing my fleets or spaceports so it seemed benefical at the time.

*Star Fox empire proptly starts expanding near the boarders of a stronger militant "Space Bird" empire.

*Space Birds get mad and declare war. Begin attacking within the "Star Fox" boarders.

*Having vastly underpowered fleets, and having the "Star Fox" boarders as a buffer, I figured I'd let them fight the war while I continued to develop my economy. I made a substanial one-sided trade offer to the Foxes which included generous stipends and monthly alotments of Food, Elect-creds, and minerals to aid in the war effort.

*The Space Birds seemed to move through the Foxe's Boarders unchallenged. At the beginning the Foxes had several fleets that could easliy rival the invasion. However, I had to quicly build a fleet just to stop unarmed trasports from landing on their planets. The AI never even attemted to stop the puny crafts from landing after planetary bombardment. This went on for seveal months until the Birds had amassed a 2 or 3k fleet. Finally, the AI began to "do something" by sending its weakest fleets into certian death without merging them together! One by one our Allance fleets and the Fox fleets were destoryed. And several of the Foxes planets became occupied.

*Eventually the Space Birds made their way to one of my remote, newer/underdevoped planets and were able to occupy it. I chocked it up as a loss, turned my focus to military development and defense research of my other planets/colonies.

*I felt I was still in good shape. Military reserch was coming fast(thanks to research deals with the Space Slugs and presidental edicts). I was fortifying and upgrading my remaining spaceports and my economy was still humming along dispite the occupied planet and the seemingly worthless trade deal I had made with the "Star Foxes" earlier.

*Then, all of a sudden, I get the "game over" screen. WTF?! I was diligently(and enjoyably) working my way out of a hole. There were no enemy fleets close to my home plant or any of my other planets(save the occupying ground forces on my remote planet).

*The Results screen indicated that all of my planets were Ceeded to the "Birds".

[Random]

I could be wrong, as I am fairly new to the game myself, but I would guess that Birds set your planets as their war goal/target and when they won the war thorugh the war score they automatically acquired all of your planets.

[mstachife]

Your allies basically sold you out to make peace LOL

[eFMeral_dEVO]

Originally posted by Drunken Spelunking:

I could be wrong, as I am fairly new to the game myself, but I would guess that Birds set your planets as their war goal/target and when they won the war thorugh the war score they automatically acquired all of your planets.

Hmm, so is there a timer or something on how long a war can last? Can an Alliance member unilaterally surrender a war?

Thanks

[wolkenwand]

You might already know this information... in log screen, there are easy to miss victory condition tab. In there you will see three ways to achieve victory, the birds might have achieve domination victory by defeating your federation.

[Random]

There is a warscore that is based on the demands that are chosen when the war is started - the higher the demands, the higher the score that is needed to win the war. Each battle and planet occupation give the winner a plus to their warscore. Once the aggressor gets the necessary warscore, the war is over and their demands are enforced. There should be an icon with a percentage n the right bottom corner during a war that you can press to see the score and what contributed to it.

[eFMeral_dEVO]

Originally posted by wolkenwand:

You might already know this information... in log screen, there are easy to miss victory condition tab. In there you will see three ways to achieve victory, the birds might have achieve domination victory by defeating your federation.

I think my alliance members, "The Foxes" only had about 5 planets(three occupied) across 4 systems. I had 4 planets across 4 systems with only one of them ouccupied.

Even with both of our colonies I don't think that would have been enough for a Domination victory. As the conquring "Space Bird's" empire was reletivly small(maybe 5 or 6 planets) and I had scoped-out it's circumference via Science ships. It's possible they could have had more with some distant conlony in the far reaches of the galaxy, but didn't seem likely.

I saved a video of the last few minutes from before the "Game Over" screen popped-up. I'll have to watch it and see what the final stats said.

Thanks

[eFMeral_dEVO]

Originally posted by Joviantspec:

A war could technically last an entire game but the AI will usually surrender or sue for peace long before that if it goes on too long. The attacking empire definitely chose your planets as its wargoals which caused your loss. Also, only the initiator of the war, and the empire that the initiator declared war on can make peace deals or choose to surrender. If your AI ally was the one that got declared on then it was up to him whether to surrender or keep fighting.

Another thing to keep in mind. If your warscore gets too far in the negatives, the attacking empire can send you a lesser peace deal where you only surrender some of your planets.It takes influence to deny this request so eventually you will run out of influence to reject his claim and he can "force" you to accept the deal. Never let it get too low if you can help it.

So, let me see if I've got this right...

If the "Birds" declared war on the "Foxes" I simply got dragged into it by proxy(due to my alliance with foxes). Therefore, if the "Birds" totally dominated the "Foxes" colonies, the war is lost.

And due to the fact the waring faction(Birds) had made wargoals which happened to include all of my colonies, once the war was lost or surrended by the Foxes, all my planets were ceeded?!

If this is indeed what happened, that would suck.

The game never made it clear that I was in such danger of failure.

[JoviantRiver]

Yep, that about sums it up. It can be a good thing being in an alliance for mutual protection but you can also get royally screwed over like in your case. Whenever you get dragged into a war always check to see what the enemies demands are to know if the outcome will affect you or not.

[vindicator]

AI will sell your planets first and foremost so dont join others wars but drag AIs to yours and exploit.

[eFMeral_dEVO]

Originally posted by Joviantspec:

Yep, that about sums it up. It can be a good thing being in an alliance for mutual protection but you can also get royally screwed over like in your case. Whenever you get dragged into a war always check to see what the enemies demands are to know if the outcome will affect you or not.

So in essense, you shouldn't join an alliance for protection unless you in-turn can protect all the other alliance members from domination?

What if there were three members to your alliance. And only one got dominated. The one that got dominated also happens to be the only member of the alliance to initally have war declared upon them(other two members by proxy). Would the game end for all three alliance empires if their colonies were included in the enemy agressors wargoals? Even if the enemy never stepped foot on any of the other two members colonies?

Why can't the Allicence simply be weakend by losing one of it's members, allowing the war to continue?

It doesn't make sense to me.

What power did I have to prevent such an outcome?

- playing as a militaristic babysitter for my AI alliance partner?
- quickly ceeding one or two wargoals(alliance member planets) to the aggressor while warscore was still positive?
- refrain from playing this game with AI alliance partners(at least until I can babysit with military power)?
- refrain from playing this game in a diplomatic/economic based manner?

I've got a lot to consider.

[eFMeral_dEVO]

Originally posted by vindicator:

AI will sell your planets first and foremost so dont join others wars but drag AIs to yours and exploit.

Does the AI always have control of the wargoal surrender terms when in an alliance war? Can they, at any moment, "push the button" to end your game, if their home planet is in jeoporday?

[eFMeral_dEVO]

Wait, does a negivite warscore result in an automatic surrender of said war?

I figured I had time to fight the war when I was ready.
But, since all my colonies were included in the aggressors wargoals, if a negitive warscore is an automatic surrender than that's probably what happened.

I thought warscore only dictated surrender/win contitions, figured I had plenty of time to swing it back in my favor. I didn't think that if it went too far in the "red" that it was an automatic surrender/loss.

So bacially, I probably could have just colonized another planet that wasn't included in the agressors wargoals and survived?

[JoviantRiver]

For starters, only the empire who has been declared war on can negotiate terms with the attacker. The AI only has control of the terms if they were the one declared on. The negative warscore is only an automatic surrender if it reaches -100%. If it reaches -25% to -30% (just guessing, i can't remeber the exact amount) the attacker can send a peace deal for just a few of the wargoals based on how high the percentage is. The higher the percentage, the more he can ask for from his initial wargoals. When the attacker sends this lesser peace deal, it takes influence for the defender to reject the deal. I think the devs placed a cool down on how often the attacker can send a peace deal because otherwise they could just spam peace deals until you ran out of influence. Still, once you are out of influence you have to accept the deal. Obviously if it reaches -100% he is able to force all of his wargoals. Alliances are good but you do need to maintain a max fleet to deter others from attacking or to be able to defend you and your allies in case you are attacked. When in an alliance, you have to defend your allies, unless of course the wargoals don't affect your planets, then you can just step back and let them handle it.
And yes, you could colonize a world during the war and you would have at least one planet left over if he went after your others.

[JoviantRiver]

Once you get used to the game, you can play whatever kind of empire you want and still wreck shop if anyone dares cross you. Just keep at it and you'll do fine.

[eFMeral_dEVO]

Originally posted by Joviantspec:

Once you get used to the game, you can play whatever kind of empire you want and still wreck shop if anyone dares cross you. Just keep at it and you'll do fine.

Thanks for the clarifications!

Pretty sure my -100 warscore, and the fact that the agressor had included all my planets within their wargoals was the reason for my abrupt ending.

I'm sure I'll muster-up the motivation to start my empire anew in the near future.