support independence never work?

[kelmenwong]

if u support an ai to independence, and it's overlord started war over it, what will happen to u?

i did this, but nothing happened to me.

[Aelies von Saladir]

The only instance when you would enter a war is when the subject declare war for independence on the overlord because of their low loyalty. This happens VERY VERY rarely. Even if their loyalty fall to hell, they would only ever decalre war for independence if they believe they can win. And if they can win against the overlord, they wouldn't become their subject in the first place.

[[Kartell]Captain Data]

Yep, subjects / vassals should always check if their supporter has the muscles to support their independence.

Right now I have a more or less friendly empire that's vassal of a hostile one. The hostile empire got already reduced to a couple of worlds and my military strength is way above theirs, yet the empire I promised I'd support independence does not act at all.

Actually I love the idea of destabilizing established vassal/overlord relationships by "randomly" supporting independence of vassals. It helps to make war without being the agressor - especially useful if you really want to kick a certain empire in the nuts without having to deal with all those pesky vassals ;)

[kelmenwong]

this was what happened in my case:

x ai vassal, supported to be independence by me
after a long time, the ai became independe, i dunno how. after i loaded a prev save, i noticed it's empire state is "independent". if i let time pass, it's former overlord declared war on it.
seems like when the tiny empire changed stated from vassal to independent, those support independence will be dropped silently

i guess maybe the overlord released it.

[NixBoxDone]

That sounds like a clever bit of diplomacy (or faulty AI)! Enemy supports your vassals independence? No worries. Release them, then declare war and take their planets. Where is your help now, bish?!

They really need to look into the mechanic. I never even bother to guarantee independence anymore. Maybe at least make them try to rebel once when they are about to get integrated or something.

[ThedudefromAfrica]

i played around 400 hours, supported indipendence always, as it doesn't cost any influence but never was i called to fight alongside a revolting vassal. It is completely useless at the current time. totally no sense

[NixBoxDone]

Yeah. I think the AI only checks its own fleet size vs the overlord, not the combined fleet strength including yours.

As a vassal will almost never have more fleet strength than the overlord, they never rebel. Not even as a last ditch effort when they are getting integrated.

[ThedudefromAfrica]

i play as a genocidial militarist a$$ and purge and purge and purge, in the current play i have 2 vassals and they are disloyal with a -860 attitude, they aren't revolting, i have a 50k fleet, it is year 2319 and their fleet is like 1k xD

[NixBoxDone]

Yeah, I know they wouldn't win, but only if all they had was their 1 k fleet.

Now, if a neighbouring empire with an 80 k fleet guaranteed their independence... They still wouldn't rebel because they're mental midgets. :(

[ThedudefromAfrica]

the base issue is that diplomacy is only a screen, but it doesn't really make any sense. Even if you mess with everybody, as a militarist, when meeting a new culture, you could just tell them: ready your weapons as we are coming, so everybody just hates you and closes their borders, but ultimately is making no difference having good or bad diplomatic relations.

And i believe that the main problem is diplomacy in real life is all about relations between governments, but not relations in terms of "how's family?"

I mean economical relations, and in this game trade is completely useless, i mean of course you would like to trade from time to time,

if you misbalanced your resource and have a ton of energy credits hitting your marker then you trade them for minerals or the other way round but still there is no way to build serious trading relations.

Like i focus on tech and energy and you give me this or that amount of minerals every month. Its not working, trading as it is now is good just to win that 0/100 bonus to relations by making gifts to other empires.

If trading was good then diplomacy will totally hop in, but then i don't think you can seriously develop a good trading system when based on 3 resources