Defensive pacts everywhere

[Dovahkiin789]

Now I've played this game since release and I have seen more defensive pacts in my current game than all games before 1.6.1 combined. Most of the AI have 5 or so defensive pacts, making any attempts at gaining territory almost impossible. As of now I might be able to pull a win through brute force, as everyone is inferior to me in some way, but that one war will open me up way to much for another AI to attack me. Any suggestions as to how I deal with this?

[Malaficus Shaikan]

I know the feeling.
My suggestion:
Focus on teching up and upgrading your infastructuer.
You want to prepare for the end game events.

You shoud check who has a defendse pact with who.
Someone who is halfway across the galaxie isnt likely to be able to stop you taking over a planet or two.

Have your wargoals be planets.
Taking a single planet will allow you to end the war quickly and avoid spending to much resourses and leaving yourself open for attack.
By picking your enemy apart piece by piece you shoud be able to slowly conquer the galaxie.

The important part is to remember:
Sun-tzu art of warfair: It is more important to keep your nation, army, company, 5 man sqaud intact.
To destroy the enemy nation, army, company, 5 man sqaud is second best.

[cooltv27]

my current game if I attack anyone I end up attacking around 6 people (out of 12)
LITERALLY EVERYONE (but the purifier) has a defensive pact web that makes it basically impossible for me to win

[Dovahkiin789]

Originally posted by Malaficus Shaikan:

I know the feeling.
My suggestion:
Focus on teching up and upgrading your infastructuer.
You want to prepare for the end game events.

You shoud check who has a defendse pact with who.
Someone who is halfway across the galaxie isnt likely to be able to stop you taking over a planet or two.

Have your wargoals be planets.
Taking a single planet will allow you to end the war quickly and avoid spending to much resourses and leaving yourself open for attack.
By picking your enemy apart piece by piece you shoud be able to slowly conquer the galaxie.

The important part is to remember:
Sun-tzu art of warfair: It is more important to keep your nation, army, company, 5 man sqaud intact.
To destroy the enemy nation, army, company, 5 man sqaud is second best.

Ill try this out. I just won two defensive wars at the same time so everyone has non aggression pacts and even more defensive pacts so I'm going to wait it out for awhile. I'll probably colonize every planet in my borders.

[genar.lars]

I also have the same problem... i start a new game and the whole galaxy is fasict... my neighbours got about 6 defensive pacts with their neighbours which makes it impossible for me to conquer anything.

[Shahadem]

Yeah they really ♥♥♥♥♥♥ something up with the AI constantly forming a greater web of defensive pacts in 5 years than Bismark in his entire life. The lack of any real diplomacy or any real free trade or any type of trade at all (where you trade for ships or specific techs or policy goals or favors or whatever) makes interacting with the AI feel utterly pointless as you can't work with them towards a common goal. Research pacts benefit the state with the worst research and screw up the state with the best research as they get nothing in return. This game has the absolute worst "diplomacy" out of any 4x game I've played.

[valt123]

The diplomacy feels currently more like placeholder than real diplomacy. The fact that you have drown them in free resources to make friends is very annoying.

[iFrame]

Until Paradox get to work on a true diplomacy and espionage system, you're stuck with brute force.

[mcsproot]

It was pretty funny in one of my games.

Every empire had the max 3 defensive pacts. But declaring war on anyone would cause 80% of the galaxy to declare war, due to wrap around defensive pacts.

[Dovahkiin789]

Originally posted by mcsproot:

It was pretty funny in one of my games.

Every empire had the max 3 defensive pacts. But declaring war on anyone would cause 80% of the galaxy to declare war, due to wrap around defensive pacts.

Reminds me of War in Heaven, only that would be a war in hell

[Dovahkiin789]

Originally posted by Deathcoy:

Until Paradox get to work on a true diplomacy and espionage system, you're stuck with brute force.

I joined a federation so I can actually win wars now.

[Rin]

I start to have the feeling that they tried to re-balance some diplomacy and overdid it horribly. Everyone has defensive pacts with everyone else now and in my current game for example I would love to declare war on one of my naighbours ... who hates my empire anyway and wont change their opinion ... but then I would end with a fight against 6 empires in total ... three of them actually my own allies.

When I look at other such constalations in the galaxy, then it becomes a total mess of interlocking treaties that block every move anyone would want to take. It is like they thought about how to improve diplomacy and came to the solution that the best would be to prevent everyone form engaging into it and just push thorugh everything as a xeno-hating warmonger ;P


Whatever happened ... the system as it worked before the latest patch just worked better.

[mcsproot]

Originally posted by Dovahkiin789:

Originally posted by mcsproot:

It was pretty funny in one of my games.

Every empire had the max 3 defensive pacts. But declaring war on anyone would cause 80% of the galaxy to declare war, due to wrap around defensive pacts.

Reminds me of War in Heaven, only that would be a war in hell

As an example, if I wanted to declare war on Empire A, obviously their Defensive Pacts would cause Empire B, Empire C and Empire D to get involved. But Empire D was also in a Defensive Pact with Empire Z, so they'd also join in.

[Sculpur]

Just an extra thought, do you use random or clustered placement for empires? From what I have seen, the AI empires must have acceptance ratings for treaties like that too, and border fricition in a cluster of them should reduce the likelyhood of defensive pacts early on.
Otherwise I kind of like this state, it feels like the AIs are considering the player for the threat that they really are and preparing suitably. In one of my games, the six biggest empires after me formed a federation that basically span 60% of the galaxy upon creation. I found that the only way I could win a war against them was if I devided my fleet and armies and started devouring planets one after another faster than they devoured mine, until the warscore was enough in my favour to call it quits for the time being... This was late game though, not really viable while your planets are still few and you can get overrun fast.

But in short, right now it's just like IRL - if a country gets too cocky, unless it is a super power everyone else will knock it back on its ass, and thus borders are almost permanent.

[Dovahkiin789]

Originally posted by Rin:

I start to have the feeling that they tried to re-balance some diplomacy and overdid it horribly. Everyone has defensive pacts with everyone else now and in my current game for example I would love to declare war on one of my naighbours ... who hates my empire anyway and wont change their opinion ... but then I would end with a fight against 6 empires in total ... three of them actually my own allies.

When I look at other such constalations in the galaxy, then it becomes a total mess of interlocking treaties that block every move anyone would want to take. It is like they thought about how to improve diplomacy and came to the solution that the best would be to prevent everyone form engaging into it and just push thorugh everything as a xeno-hating warmonger ;P


Whatever happened ... the system as it worked before the latest patch just worked better.

While I agree it worked better, I'm just happy that AI empires fight each other now. I was tired of them building up across the galxy until I got to them myself

[Dovahkiin789]

Originally posted by Sculpur:

Just an extra thought, do you use random or clustered placement for empires? From what I have seen, the AI empires must have acceptance ratings for treaties like that too, and border fricition in a cluster of them should reduce the likelyhood of defensive pacts early on.
Otherwise I kind of like this state, it feels like the AIs are considering the player for the threat that they really are and preparing suitably. In one of my games, the six biggest empires after me formed a federation that basically span 60% of the galaxy upon creation. I found that the only way I could win a war against them was if I devided my fleet and armies and started devouring planets one after another faster than they devoured mine, until the warscore was enough in my favour to call it quits for the time being... This was late game though, not really viable while your planets are still few and you can get overrun fast.

I use random. The problem usually lies mid-game when I finish up a war, as every empire thinls "Oh god, I'm next" and they make every treaty with their neighbors possible.