Genuine discussion about Difficulty Drop rates.

[ZKaagelnaodsa]

Since I assume the DEV's might at least look at these discussion threads, I'd like to make a general one towards the new update's difficulty and the drop rates.

I think we can all agree the highest difficulty is a bit too overtuned, as only the most busted of builds can even survive. That doesn't really feel difficult, but that's not what this thread I'm making here about is specifically trying to focus on. I'm trying to focus on drop rates

See, I personally feel like this game is really asking a lot of my time to make these builds.
I made commentary before on how Breeding takes a lot of effort to really get the perfect creature in a game where online battling and trading doesn't exist.

I feel like this game is really starting to blur the line of how hard you need to start working for these things, and these drop rates are pretty bad. To be fair, the rate of them SPAWNING with gold isn't that bad.

https://puu.sh/Kchnk/b4a7622a8a.png

I literally found one with 4 traits being gold. It was only one, but I found one and that's pretty insane.

But this game is about making teams, and maximizing those teams, and I really feel like this final difficulty should have a MUCH higher rate to get these items.

Maybe if there was a way to sacrifice a Yaoling and turn one of its talents into an orb, this would be much better. Because then you could fight hard Yaolings, capture one (which is harder now) and then you can use it as effectively a battery to charge up another Yaoling you have.

Which still takes a lot of work because you gotta hunt your Yaoling, find the right perks, and then actually capture the guy in a world where it's super difficult (or start using Grand Seals and probably losing).

I think this would be a lot better than "Hyper-super rare RNG after every fight,"
Even if the difficulty was tweaked to make this difficulty much more bearable, and I could beat every fight as is without too much issue (Like I can on difficulty 3) I'm not noticing the gems nearly as much as I feel like I should.

The drop rate is so absolutely horrible that I feel like the game should drop gold orbs this often on the normal difficulty at this rate because it's so bad, and each difficulty instead increases the odds, or maybe filters out types.

Example: I don't know the difficulty names so I'm just gonna use basic titles
Easy: 10% Blue, 5% Purple
Normal: 15% Blue, 5% Purple, 5% Gold
Hard: 45% Blue, 25% Purple, 15% Gold
Very Hard: 60% Purple, 40% Gold

Remember, these odds seem very high, but this still takes a lot of effort. You need multiple of the same orb, there's no way to filter out to get the one you want.

With these odds ALONE you have to think about HOW MANY perks there are.
So 1/5 You get to roll on the table of Gold Perks, which might not get you the perk you even want. If there's 10 Gold perks, I don't know the number I'm just throwing one out, that turns a 40% to a 4% chance to get what you even want. If you need multiple, this gets Even worse and that's if there's ONLY TEN which I'm pretty sure there's a couple more than that.

This is a team building game, with teams not just being built based on monster synergy but talent synergy. I feel like we are being very frugal with our variables and underestimating just how many things you have to do just to get 1 perfect monster, especially if you're like me and you want them to be sparkly and recolored and big.

To those out there who want to feel like they have to "Earn their team" and feel this to be too high, I'm willing to hear better numbers.


Personally, if the idea of: Any Yaoling can be Sacrificed to take one of its talents and turn it into a consumable for another happened then I think the drop rate numbers could be a lot lower, because that would at least be nice. Especially if it costed something, like hearts/money.

If you think 'Sacrificing for Consumable' is too much, then I'll switch the idea to:
Any Yaoling can be sacrificed to transfer one its talents to another of the same Race meaning you still have to go out and farm that specific Yaoling, which gets much harder in the higher difficulty on the deeper / higher level and more Rare Yaolings, so you don't just farm butterflies for orbs.


Edit: Or we could just add Talent orbs to the heart drop rate pool because I don't think I see them in there. I haven't gotten one at least.

[Dar]

TBH, right now, the only talent you really need to farm Union is Charity SE, and that's not even a Legendary talent. Legendary talents are nice to have, but by no means really essential. The only talents which are somewhat hard to replace with other talents are LuckyStar, Inconspicuous and Ingenious. The latter two are pretty situational due to how aggro works - YaoLing don't usually change targets randomly.

For example Elite Heritage is often less effective than just using investment, since Investment also triggers WP Mana gain. Assuming you have the lowest cost 80 Mana ability, you normally fire 1 ability in 8 seconds. Disregarding WP, Investment alone would change that into 80/14 = 5.71 seconds. That's a 28.6% reduction compared to Elite Heritage's 30%, and if your unit has significant WP, it comes out ahead.

That's not even to compare it to Investment SE, which Elite Heritage flat out loses to. All the Herald talents are somewhat weaker than the equivalent Elite 100% damage for 6 seconds after ability use talents provided your units cast abilities more often than once per 12 seconds. Royal Bloodline is just a direct 0.4x eHP multiplier, nothing amazing.

I actually do think the game is fine in its current state, bar them introducing more powerful Legendary talents and in fact, I think that Legendary talents in general could use a slight buff.

[ZKaagelnaodsa]

You can Farm SE's? I thought those were Shiny Only, and like completely random upon the birth of the Shiny. Maybe with some sway with parent but not guaranteed.

[Dar]

By farming, I mean breeding.

You need to breed vast quantities of Shinies to get specific SEs, the Shiny chance with two Shiny parents is 50%, so it isn't that horrible. The Shiny talent is completely random, however.

I'm just addressing your concerns about Legendary talents, I can tell you definitively that no Legendary Talent is Quintessential for Union difficulty - they can easily be replaced by Elite talents and below.

My opinion would change if they ever nerf the WuKong battery, then the LuckyStar+Inspiration degenerate combo would be extremely important. Inspiration is already a bit too strong for an Elite talent.

[ZKaagelnaodsa]

Oh I am specifically talking about the drop rates being super low.
Yes, I know you can breed them, I was trying to find some Yaolings that had talents I wanted and deleted the ones I didn't one to get one with all the ones I did want and then tried to breed that into a Shiny Yaoling just because I wanted sparkles and then I tried to breed that into a Recolored and Elite Yaoling so I could get a shiny recolored elite yaoling with my traits and then I tried to get the best stats on it.

I know you don't need all those things, but because you can get all those things all I'm asking is for some ways to make that just a bit simpler.

And I feel like the talent system within the difficulty giving a drop rate to talent consumables seems like it's trying to remedy that while also giving a nice challenge which is cool.

I know I gave some comments to breeding, but that's just because this was mostly revolving around the topic of the Talent Consumables, and the only way other than Talent Consumables to spread talents is Breeding... I brought it up.

if you could like... just buy all the talents I'd be cool with that too, but you can't. You can buy some at a time, but you can't just buy what you want when you need it and I'm usually needing a lot of the same stuff for a lot of my guys.


Very minimum, I do get "You don't need golds you can do fine with purples" and most of the stuff I need and use are purples. But even on the 3rd difficulty I farmed a lot and saw like... maybe 3? 4? Over hours and hours of gameplay?

So if there's a 5% drop rate, and there's like 15-20 purple talents
The odds of getting what you want are like... close to none, y'know?

Since the game is early access, I felt like I would throw in my 2 cents that I feel like the "Difficulty talent consumable drop rate rewards" feel a little low, is all.

I just tried to give a lot of supporting info, and maybe a new suggestion on how to use heart gems. Because I think heart gems should be used for more interesting things than a gacha that helps for the first like.... 500 and then it just feels meaningless to spend.



Also please inform of Wukong battery I was going to build a Wukong because he summons and I'm trying to make a summoner party

[Dar]

I feel like you've gone on a really long meandering segue which completely lost me, so I lost any interest in continuing the discussion, sorry.

My point as it stands is very simple: You want Legendary Talent Jades to be more common, but I don't think that's necessary because breeding in two Legendary talents is trivial, especially on harder difficulties, and the Legendary pool is so limited that there isn't much point in having three or more Legendary skills.

[LEF]

I agree with OP. The chance to get a talent gem is so small that the added difficulty doesn’t feel worth it. Let alone trying to go for a specific talent. It’s easier, at least for blue and purple talents, to just wait for the gems to be available in the shop. It being the only way currently available to obtain gold talents outside of chests would be the only reason I’d even consider attempting it, but even then the time investment doesn’t feel worth it.

I will say, however, that the increased stats of the wild yaolings is very much worth the added difficulty. On the highest difficulty, as long as you’re careful to always surprise the yaoling so you can run away without consequence, you can effectively hunt yaolings with great stats without having to bother with breeding. Sure they won’t be perfect, but they can get pretty close - and if you consider that not all yaolings really need a good rating in each stat, then they can be just as good. I’ve gotten ones with 5 stars in all stats, 5 stars in all stats except one that is a 6, and ones with 6 stars in the 3 stats I cared about for that yaoling. Once you find one you want to catch, as it stands currently you don’t need to win the battle to keep it as long as you catch it before you lose/run.

[Pinky Sprinkles]

I couldn't agree more. No content should be completely gated by difficulty, especially this game. Gamers now a days like a challenge, but that's not all of us. I want an easy fun game that I can enjoy. I still want to build my team to their fullest potential without needing to go to union.

Also, yes the time investment is way too much. The mechanisms around breeding takes too long. We can catch the yellow talents, but it takes a large time investment to breed them up.

I hope the devs remember the cozy side of this game instead of only focusing on the hardcore side.

[alla]

i tried on highest diff farming on mobs and or boss, none. waste of time... cant even get any even useless yellow talent

what im doing now is, check commission sales Yao (Hire). if you get lucky to see the specific Yao get one with a desired yellow talent like tyrant or Intuition, some herald or Briliant, or RB.. then crazyly grind breed hatch fest and sometimes i get 3 golden talents in one baby, breed more... pray to rng gods later to get what u really want ^_^
and that gives me a desirable outcome :)