So, what are thoughts on Demon vs Normal?

[ZKaagelnaodsa]

https://puu.sh/Kc4Xw/e3016e76d7.png
https://puu.sh/Kc4Yk/71b840fc4b.png

Honestly, I thought Demons were gonna be straight better, I'm happy they're not. I was afraid because Demon designs are usually quite different than the normal design, meaning if you don't like the demon you don't like the *practical* final Evo.

This one is one of my favorites, I'm curious what others think about the Demons v.s. Normal evolutions

[[Ruw] Gorges]

I think ots the ability that should influence your opinion on the demon form or not.
#172 Nyxsa is an amzing healer, but her normal (#171) form ability can't keep up.

[ZKaagelnaodsa]

Yeah, like for the cats you can either break debuffs and have higher crit rate, or have a creature that can literally stop mana gain which is amazing. Combine that with silence and they just never freaking cast.


Some of them feel like straight upgrades, I feel like they should be like sidegrades.
Like, #27 Owlumina is a party healer, but #28 Flips it on its head and turns her into an AoE life drain.

I think Demons should be more like that, where they have skills so different they feel like different monsters.

I'm okay with subtle sidegrades, but some just feel like straight up/downgrades.
Like, I'm okay with #95 Who has a DoT that also stops life recovery, and #96 which has a dot that explodes when they die. IMO, #96 is better in most cases, but #95 has niche edgecases that no other role can fill which makes it unique and still cool.

But then there's #87 Nocula who just has a straight lesser version of #88 Fangraze. Sure, Fangraze lasts 3 less seconds, but oh no it lasts 3 less seconds but you get freaking 10% more attack speed every second while you're in it? That more than makes up for it.

Demons should be straight different or heavy side grade, not like... the same skill but better but lasts slightly less long. Like the fire starter. It can shoot 1 bomb that burns for like 9 seconds, or 3 bombs that last for 6. Oh no? You threw 200% more damage, my god the dot lasts a little less long woe is me.

This is why I like something like those cats. Debuff removal with higher passive crit, or screw your mana kitty. That's an actual difference. Those are actually different monsters, and I can see a build for both.


Another one I really like is the howling dog. Fire damage dogs and your first summon throws 3 for like 30-50 more mana, or 2 dogs guaranteed every time. By 2 summons, you are summoning the same dog, but afterwards the 1st evolution is better for summoning; however, the other dogs do fire damage which matters if you're stacking stuff that cares about that. I personally am using a lot of summoners (Snake charmer, Dogs, Shadow archer, I'm looking for the sword bruiser that summons swords)

So I really like her having 2 dogs every time howl. Plus I gave her a chance to spawn one more and a chance to have it reset once. She can sometimes just go "oops 6 dogs" and overrun a field.

[Carambar]

Originally posted by ZKaagelnaodsa:

But then there's #87 Nocula who just has a straight lesser version of #88 Fangraze. Sure, Fangraze lasts 3 less seconds, but oh no it lasts 3 less seconds but you get freaking 10% more attack speed every second while you're in it? That more than makes up for it.

Fangraze gets a massive stats penalty upon evolving compared to the normal evolution though. But sadly, we aren't informed of those changes before the evolution so it's hard to grasp the differences.

Some changes do not appear at all on the evolution screen such as atk & mvt speed values going up/down and you'll have to double check the Yaoling's detail before and after evolution to see if there are any changes to those stats.

Edit: I hope the evolution screen can be improved in further updates so that players can make better informed decisions on which evolution fits best their team & playstyle.

[ZKaagelnaodsa]

Originally posted by Carambar:

Originally posted by ZKaagelnaodsa:

But then there's #87 Nocula who just has a straight lesser version of #88 Fangraze. Sure, Fangraze lasts 3 less seconds, but oh no it lasts 3 less seconds but you get freaking 10% more attack speed every second while you're in it? That more than makes up for it.

Fangraze gets a massive stats penalty upon evolving compared to the normal evolution though. But sadly, we aren't informed of those changes before the evolution so it's hard to grasp the differences.

Some changes do not appear at all on the evolution screen such as atk & mvt speed values going up/down and you'll have to double check the Yaoling's detail before and after evolution to see if there are any changes to those stats.

Edit: I hope the evolution screen can be improved in further updates so that players can make better informed decisions on which evolution fits best their team & playstyle.

Oh it does? I didn't know that, huh. Which one is better then? Overall, that is?

Because they seem like they fill the same role, right?

[Dar]

I know I'm shilling, but I recently added a bunch of sections to my Guide if you want to compare Demon form abilities to the 3rd evolution. I haven't touched Stat spreads yet because Steam just doesn't give you the space to add more columns without making the data unreadable.

Also, note that Demon forms usually have terrible Crafting weights and there isn't a single instance where Demons are better at Crafting than the Normal 3rd form.

[Carambar]

Originally posted by ZKaagelnaodsa:

Oh it does? I didn't know that, huh. Which one is better then? Overall, that is?

Because they seem like they fill the same role, right?

- Nocula could potentially fit any team if you can give it appropriate talents for the role you want it to play. Main Healer? Mix DPS-Support? Maybe Main Tank?

- Fangraze is high risk for high reward. A pure glass cannon that can provide massive value IF you can protect it & feed it mana.

I would pick Nocula over Fangraze for being generally more survivable and versatile on a regular playthrough.

Dead weight gets left behind.