What happened at the Tower of Ridgehorn!?!?! (spuh, spuh, SPOILERS)

[Chester]

So... trying to put some things together from the story. Feel free to add in your thoughts.

(Massive spoilers)

Known: So, Bellower has been having dreams about a tower and lightning through Bolverk. We only know of one character who can control lightning - Eyvind, not even the other menders can - and Hakon and co. discover Eyvind unconscious at the tower of Ridgehorn in BS1. Mogr remarks that it looks like a battle had occurred there but only Dredge bodies were found (they also remark that the fort had been abandoned for some time, so there's no reason for any varl or human - or dredge - to be there). When they find Eyvind, they also find a dead Juno. When Eyvind wakes up he asks where Juno is; Hakon says they only found corpses, except for Eyvind. Eyvind's immediate response is "we have to go back."

Conjecture: Eyvind knows Juno's not dead. Eyvind undertook the ritual to revive Juno at the Tower of Ridgehorn and it cost A LOT of dredge lives. Possibly something from Bellower too as his dreams are from the ritual at Ridgehorn. Eyvind brought the lightning and killed all those dredge to fuel Juno's revival.


Known: When we first see Juno and the Serpent, they are both on a tower. This may be in some ethereal dream world, but this still seems to be the Tower of Ridgehorn. The Serpent is angry at Juno for stealing his power. Zefr at one point remarks that she knows several of the Dredge. Bellower calls Juno/Eyvind a liar at BS2's conclusion. Bellower says that the dredge have been paying for Eyvind's crimes ("paying underground" I think he says).

Conjecture: The Mender Council maintain an amicable relationship with the Dredge. Eyvind approached them and made a promise to the Dredge - maybe directly to Bellower - about something but it was all a lie so he could kill them to fuel Juno's revival ritual. But Bellower didn't die. The ritual that revived Juno also woke the Serpent - possibly because it used the Serpent's power (not Bellower's) to fuel Juno's life. This ritual of bringing the dead back to life seems to correspond to right around the time as when the sun stopped, the first anomaly way back at the start of Banner Saga 1. It is also what fueled the spreading darkness, which first began sprouting in the Northern Dredge lands, which is what caused them to travel/hide in the underground tunnels Zefr takes the party through (which is also why they seem to be showing up everywhere, "directly from the ground" as some people remark).


Known: Back in Banner Saga 1, it was assumed Bellower was following the party to get revenge on Iver, but no one seems to know. Juno uses her mind control on anyone who asks her uncomfortable questions (and has likely been doing so for some time). Juno claims she is going North to stop the darkness. She begins by going to Manaharr and, along with Eyvind, obliterating the Mender council that stands in her way. Juno/Eyvind is accused of trying to turn Eyvind into a god. Juno is asked by the Mender council "do you even see what you've become?" which visibly shakes her. Someone along the way (I forget who and where) says that the Gods may not all be dead, but just sleeping. At the end of the game, Juno/Eyvind is seen with the rest of Bolverk's old party touching the darkness.

BIG CONJECTURE: Juno and Eyvind are the ultimate villains of this game. Bellower was never following Iver, he was following Eyvind. They are almost certainly directly responsible for the Darkness, the Serpent, the Sun stopping, and the Dredge violently fleeing the North. They seem to want to put an end to all this, but (big conjecture) their ultimate goal is not to save anyone's lives. They ultimately want to turn Eyvind (probably Juno too) into Gods by stealing whatever's left of the Gods' powers. They have conscripted Bolverk's forces (and are likely still mind controlling Zefr) as a means of combating any Dredge forces in their way (which will likely be seen in Banner Saga 3). Other than aiding the Rook/Alette party, they have done nothing particularly "good." They have not gone North to stop the darkness - they have gone North to finish Eyvind's godhood ritual. If any choices in Banner Saga 3 require Eyvind/Juno to sacrifice anyone - maybe even the whole world - to gain godhood, they will do so.

Eyvind and Juno are not interested in helping any other characters. They will use/manipulate any other characters if it suits them. They are only interested in themselves. They are the bad guys. And the Dredge know it.


Just a thought.

[Белый Кот]

Just check Bellower dream more carefully - the tower is not Ridgehorn, it's the tower of Manaharr , which Eyvind also destroyed by lighting. Another interesting fact - Morg and Hakon had dreams about tower of Ridgehorn, when Eyvind was having fun there.
But I cannot sum it up yet..

[AlphaAlphaAlpha]

Another thing is that I thnik the sun had been stopped for some time before the game started. The sun stopped when the gods died, I think.

[wusch]

Wich would be 200 Years ago, as that was the time when the last Varl where made and the last Varl to be made celebrates his 200th Birthday when the Group draws nearer to the Humans Capital.

[Белый Кот]

But the sun stopped just a few days before events of BS1, Ubin, Ludin and Hakon are clearly visiting the first city after the event.

[Sloul Des Tucs]

I think they ♥♥♥♥♥♥ something up but are trying to fix it in their own way, they are not evil. But they have done something bad.
Possible that they were not fully aware at the time of what would happen, it was more like an experiment.

Eyvind go absolute berserk when Juno dies, and probably doesn't give a jack about anything else until he revive Juno.

[Белый Кот]

I feel like Slouy - they probably have broken something (Bellower dream image look like the lighting from the tower is either makeing darkness appear, or lighting comes from the darkness, Eyvind openned to summon it).
If they did not lie all the time, then they did not want all this to happen and now trying to save people and fix the mistake. If you blame them hard, they'll also accept a lot.

[Chester]

Originally posted by Sloul:

I think they ♥♥♥♥♥♥ something up but are trying to fix it in their own way, they are not evil. But they have done something bad.

This alternative is probably at least equally as likely. It seems we won't get any final answers until BS3 but I think it's gotta be one of those two scenarios: they did a forbidden ritual and are focused on fixing the consequences or they did a forbidden ritual and are focused on finishing it. But clearly they were previously up to some shady business and they also clearly do not want to explain what that was.

[King Banhammer]

*blink, blink*

I just realized that she's probably also why Hakon couldn't chose not to go to Ridgehorn in the first place. Oh dear.

[Pshek]

As I understand, Eyvind and Juno are not the ones they say they are. And they have some... ambitions about this world. Mender is TOO STRONG, valka uses mind powers and other things, speaking the god's language. He wounded the serpent, destroyed Manahhar, built those bridge from stones above cleft... Valka said something as "want become a god"...

And I think, on the tower, he revived Juno from death, using powers of darkness. All disasters happened because of this. He broke the barrier to this warped reality, released something. May be they are not bad guys, but Mender's counsil isn't absolute fools for imprisonment of mender.

But may be he only want to save her, and accidentally all of this happened. And now they want to fix it.

Reread topic message - agree at all)

[Chester]

Originally posted by King Banhammer:

*blink, blink*

I just realized that she's probably also why Hakon couldn't chose not to go to Ridgehorn in the first place. Oh dear.

Wow, nice catch! I totally forgot about that. At one point in BS1 during Hakon's campaign, Hakon has the dialogue option to go somewhere other than Ridgehorn; if you choose it then it says something like "something takes hold of your mind and you decide to go to Ridgehorn instead." That would've almost certainly been Juno.

[m.netsev]

Tower in Bolwerk's dream is not Ridgehorn - it's black, and tower in a dream is white.

[Yellow]

Cool stuff, certainly a possibility. There is some shady bussiness surounding Juno and Eyvind for sure.

[Onion Donkey]

I don't know about Juno, But after we've seen Eyvind save Iver, the entire caravan from the dredge, be a true friend to Rook and offer to teach Alette mending, there's no way he's a villian. He also exploded the serpent, [spoiler/] so there's that

[kazooki117]

I think Eyvind and Juno dabbled in forbidden knowledge and were condemned by the council for it. Juno was killed, Eyvind was emprisoned. Eyvind broke out and through some ritual revived Juno.

Now, I don't know if the forbidden things they did are what caused the sun to stop or the darkness to spread. It is possible that they are different events both caused by Juno and Evyind, the sun stopping being related to whatever got them in trouble in the first place (other than mind control) and the darkness being a result of reviving Juno. I feel like the characters don't seem malevolent, and instead seem to just want to increase their power/knowledge. Their goal may be to attain godhood. I don't know that they intended to destroy the world to do so. It could be that they will still go ahead with it anyway, but aren't necessarily uncaring that the world would be destroyed. But it seems more like they are trying to fix their mistake. Otherwise their dialogue with Alette when they leave makes less sense.

I think the nature of the serpent plays heavily into this. According to the serpent, it was intended to become a god. It is possible this is at the behest of the gods, but some of the other things it says (such as devouring the world AND the darkness) imply that its origins may lie with something else. It's claim that it wants to devour the darkness indicates that it has a different origin than the darkness. Other mythos have a concept of a primordial cleaner, that wipes away the universe in order for another to begin, or something. Could this be what the serpent is? That makes sense to me from the comment that it intends to devour the world and the darkness. It could also just be a being created by some other entity with the purpose of devouring the world in order to attain godhood in some way. Either way, I think the important takeaway is that it seems that the cause of the darkness is unrelated to the origin of the serpent.

I don't know if the serpent is related to the dredge, or Bellower's immortality. It's possible that they have different sources for the immortality. For example, Juno is immortal from the time she is revived until the end of BS2, and Bellower is also immortal for the entirety of both games. While he is asleep in BS2, it is heavily implied that removing the arrow and maybe some other stuff is all it would take to revive him.

[Banjax]

Originally posted by kazooki117:

Bellower is also immortal for the entirety of both games. While he is asleep in BS2, it is heavily implied that removing the arrow and maybe some other stuff is all it would take to revive him.

If you intentionally lose the last fight the arrow is removed from Bellower and he awakens.