Impossible Tormented Space Maps?

[RogueDeus]

Its very possible that I am simply not grasping some detail or mechanic, but there are quite a few key worlds in 'Tormented Space' that seem to me to be impossible to complete.

An example: Kinloneport(in S200_54)... The creep pushes so fast that I can barely make one cannon before its upon me. Unless I place the CM on the landing pad. Either way I get choked off for usable space before I can do anything.

If anyone can point me to a strategy I am overlooking, I'd appreciate it. Otherwise, why include 'key' worlds this difficult (or impossible) at all?!?

[dj8472]

https://knucklecracker.com/forums/index.php?topic=14214.0

[Argos]

Some Tormented Space worlds are completely impossible.

[RogueDeus]

Ah. Thanks. ;)

[florrat]

Some tormented space maps are impossible, but Kinloneport is not one of them. See http://knucklecracker.com/forums/index.php?topic=14333.0

[fractalgem]

Whew, kinloneport was DEFINITELY a tricky one. not sure if the short scores that aren't OBVIOUSLY cheated (e.g. less than the time it takes to build a nullifier) are cheated or successful inhibitor snipes.

Took me a few tries to conclude going for the platform in the middle was a waste of time, and then another few tries to establish myself on the platform in the lower right-

*and then I resorted to juggling the command node over the creeper* alongside desperately saving every minute ish and trying slightly different spacings+timing on building for my mortars and a blaster until i finally managed to get juuuuuuuuuust enough power to start expanding to the right with a blaster+terp combo. final time, 44:06.3, with lots of room to improve if I don't relax so much on the last phase of expansion.

[snaketeeth01]

Funny I find this thread. Probably comes up all the time!

I have so far played and beaten 2 of these maps without issue.

And now after more than 1 hour of attempts of Aliencaster.
I would not be surprised if this one is either impossible or one of the most difficult maps ever designed by hell.

You have nothing but cliffs. Tiny map.
You cannot get neergy. At all. nothing. Your done.
Water spawns basically on top of you without any delay. it's right there.
And then even if you get teh ittiest bittiest tioniest almost surviable bit of defense.
They send too many spores at you.
Even if you have 2 beams FULL of ammo. You cannot destroy the first round of spores.
And good luck building more than 2 beams.

This map is absolutely brutal.
The highest income energy i have reached is 3.7 and very shortly after I get swarmed and done.
There is seemingly no possible way to have enough energy to just survive for any ammount of time. To reach any space to get any.. no. This is absolute hell.

[Fireswamp]

Originally posted by snaketeeth01:

And now after more than 1 hour of attempts of Aliencaster.
I would not be surprised if this one is either impossible or one of the most difficult maps ever designed by hell.

S200_0: Aliancasterer is listed as a hard map, is this the map you are talking about? I don't see anything close to Aliencaster in the impossible list.

The impossible list is:
S200_64 (5,2): Bradsometum (I)(-)
S200_119 (9,2): Madotis (I)(-)
S200_162 (2,8): Molzacdai
S200_153 (2,1): Luumulyr
S200_69 (3,3): Eridon (-)
S200_101 (3,4): Jovencoting (I)
S200_169 (0,0): Paraisoer (I)
S200_189 (1,7): Keomicanfur
S200_155 (2,8): Landen
S200_13 (1,9): Copdenulus
S200_169 (0,0): Paraisoer
S200_187 (7,3): Abertoft (I)

If the map is not on the list it is very likely possible.

S200_0: Aliancasterer is difficult but possible, there are youtube videos of people clearing it. There are actually 20 maps in the 'very hard' category that are considered harder than it, but still possible. The full list has already been linked:

Originally posted by florrat:

Some tormented space maps are impossible, but Kinloneport is not one of them. See http://knucklecracker.com/forums/index.php?topic=14333.0

[lonesh33p]

@SnakeTeeth: Per @Fireswamp, S200_0 Aliancasterer is mentioned in several threads as challenging (not impossible to beat, but impossible to search for since no one ever spells it right). I've not encountered a walkthrough for that one.

My thought when I began this post was that you might find it useful to look at some of the walkthroughs in Hard or very hard Tormented Space maps, to get a feel for some of the tricks the experts use when space and energy are nearly nonexistent. But I'm already having second thoughts about that thought. Might not be applicable.

[snaketeeth01]

Wow.

This is a game I have gone back to now and again to clear a map and that's that.
I know there are many many maps to complete in prospector and I've let that slowly build up.

Only yesterday was the first time I had look at tormented maps.
Alienator in the first sector is proving to be absolutely tormenting.
I've wasted 4 hours down this dump.

Only to find out this is one of many many sectors.
FFS..

I hit all the stages of gaming rage.
That point where you are getting mad at it that you get better.
Then what you think will work won't work.
So now you doubt yourself and have to try something new.
That doesn't work.
Nothing works.
Nothing not even remotely will come even close to anything that resembles working.
Then you lose all skill whatsoever and lose faster and faster.

I refuse to look up guides and play as a wiki game.
I do not care for somebody to make 50 recorded attempts just to get 1 run that works and act like they are some master. Nah bro.
I can copy all your moves exact and I know I am still prone to luck and exact timings.

So far in this map I cannot break the 7 minute mark.
Can't get anywhere with it.

So far the best thing I have found is to install 4 collectors, and somewhere around starting the 6'th I start what' they call it? Reactor.
Takes a while to build. But how else do I get the energy?
You need so much + just to feed your basic cannons enough to hold the flood back.
In under 1 minute your base is being threatened by water. you have 0 breathe room.
Those 4 seconds for your command to land is 4 seconds too long.
You do not have the time to waste.

I can get up to 3 MAYBE even 4 reactor.
I can get 4 cannons fed to defend.
Then the spores come and it's GG every time.
On my best runs I can survive up until spores. But then you are done.
Youa re blasted with 4 spores. 4 more. 4 more. 731928738912 more. Just boom Done.
I cannot get anywhere near a basic tiny defense and having AA.

I've tried for early Terp to create walls and holes to buy me some breathign time.
Nope.
Terp drains way too much of my nonexistant energy. Can't form the land into anything of use. Bad investment.
I've tried not getting the ore and sprayer.
You can't. You have to get a sprayer at the very top of the map. AND 2 cannons, AND a third cannon below that.
I've tried getting morter to make deep shots and hold the flood to buy time.
Seems to help. Holds the flood.
But then you have no TIME and energyu holdings to build up beams and supply them with ammo.
Ya can't There's nothign.
The best I can get up to is +6 energy and holding the ground flood.
But then the spores come and there is nothing you can do.

I've tried for an early strafer thinking it might be expensive but cost effective enough that it will have some sort of affect.
Nope.
I trained myself to count down to the frame when to start building the next collector so I waste 0 potential time in getting my income up as soon as possible.
Nope.
Nothing.
Nothing i do will get me anywhere near a win.

But I refuse to seek a video or exact tips. I gotta figure this out.
I cannot imagine how the game can possibly get harder than this map. So maps are rated more difficult than this?
How?
How is that even possible?
I gotta see it myself not just read it.
To me. So far however many hours I have put into this game so far. Nothing has been even remotely difficult like this.
Not even lying, I do not ever recall a map this small. That's the worst part.
The water is right on top of you from the start.

I am picky where my first collectors go.
I make sure my very first occupy as much land as possible otherwise i am going to invest the energy toward reactor.

The sooner you get reactors, the sooner you can expand and react right? need that.
But my god.
The balance.. the time.. the no energy... the cliffs.. absolutely everything is turned to difficulty 11 toward you as if to deter you from even trying to play any other sector in torment.
It's like a gate of a pretend 90- levels behind it that you will never even bother to attempt playing.

But my god. If I can beat this map on my own skill. I can't see any other map giving me any trouble.
I just gotta find that magic number. That timing that I can force reactors immediately.
I've tried single cannon on bottom portion of map. Can't hold it for long enough and i do not want to concede the land.
I cannot put a sprayer on the bottom as well, the top sprayer needs all the fueal it can get to hold back the tallest water wave crashing in.
Can't do it.
Spores get me.
I will have nightmares over this map.

[Fireswamp]

I suspect you aren't aware: you only need to beat the map in a system that has the inhibitor to proceed to other connected systems. Aliancasterer is not an inhibitor world so you can skip the level if you want to do other maps, those might also serve as good practice before coming back to play Aliancasterer. Quick warning though, the inhibitor world in one of the adjacent systems (S200_101:Jovencoting) is impossible; go to another sector if you want to unlock more maps.

[fractalgem]

It's a small map, yes. learn that small tormented maps are gonna be the hardest ones.

Originally posted by snaketeeth01:

Wow.

This is a game I have gone back to now and again to clear a map and that's that.
I know there are many many maps to complete in prospector and I've let that slowly build up.

Only yesterday was the first time I had look at tormented maps.
Alienator in the first sector is proving to be absolutely tormenting.
I've wasted 4 hours down this dump.

Only to find out this is one of many many sectors.
FFS..

I hit all the stages of gaming rage.
That point where you are getting mad at it that you get better.
Then what you think will work won't work.
So now you doubt yourself and have to try something new.
That doesn't work.
Nothing works.
Nothing not even remotely will come even close to anything that resembles working.
Then you lose all skill whatsoever and lose faster and faster.

I refuse to look up guides and play as a wiki game.
I do not care for somebody to make 50 recorded attempts just to get 1 run that works and act like they are some master. Nah bro.
I can copy all your moves exact and I know I am still prone to luck and exact timings.

So far in this map I cannot break the 7 minute mark.
Can't get anywhere with it.

So far the best thing I have found is to install 4 collectors, and somewhere around starting the 6'th I start what' they call it? Reactor.
Takes a while to build. But how else do I get the energy?
You need so much + just to feed your basic cannons enough to hold the flood back.
In under 1 minute your base is being threatened by water. you have 0 breathe room.
Those 4 seconds for your command to land is 4 seconds too long.
You do not have the time to waste.

I can get up to 3 MAYBE even 4 reactor.
I can get 4 cannons fed to defend.
Then the spores come and it's GG every time.
On my best runs I can survive up until spores. But then you are done.
Youa re blasted with 4 spores. 4 more. 4 more. 731928738912 more. Just boom Done.
I cannot get anywhere near a basic tiny defense and having AA.

I've tried for early Terp to create walls and holes to buy me some breathign time.
Nope.
Terp drains way too much of my nonexistant energy. Can't form the land into anything of use. Bad investment.
I've tried not getting the ore and sprayer.
You can't. You have to get a sprayer at the very top of the map. AND 2 cannons, AND a third cannon below that.
I've tried getting morter to make deep shots and hold the flood to buy time.
Seems to help. Holds the flood.
But then you have no TIME and energyu holdings to build up beams and supply them with ammo.
Ya can't There's nothign.
The best I can get up to is +6 energy and holding the ground flood.
But then the spores come and there is nothing you can do.

I've tried for an early strafer thinking it might be expensive but cost effective enough that it will have some sort of affect.
Nope.
I trained myself to count down to the frame when to start building the next collector so I waste 0 potential time in getting my income up as soon as possible.
Nope.
Nothing.
Nothing i do will get me anywhere near a win.

But I refuse to seek a video or exact tips. I gotta figure this out.
I cannot imagine how the game can possibly get harder than this map. So maps are rated more difficult than this?
How?
How is that even possible?
I gotta see it myself not just read it.
To me. So far however many hours I have put into this game so far. Nothing has been even remotely difficult like this.
Not even lying, I do not ever recall a map this small. That's the worst part.
The water is right on top of you from the start.

I am picky where my first collectors go.
I make sure my very first occupy as much land as possible otherwise i am going to invest the energy toward reactor.

The sooner you get reactors, the sooner you can expand and react right? need that.
But my god.
The balance.. the time.. the no energy... the cliffs.. absolutely everything is turned to difficulty 11 toward you as if to deter you from even trying to play any other sector in torment.
It's like a gate of a pretend 90- levels behind it that you will never even bother to attempt playing.

But my god. If I can beat this map on my own skill. I can't see any other map giving me any trouble.
I just gotta find that magic number. That timing that I can force reactors immediately.
I've tried single cannon on bottom portion of map. Can't hold it for long enough and i do not want to concede the land.
I cannot put a sprayer on the bottom as well, the top sprayer needs all the fueal it can get to hold back the tallest water wave crashing in.
Can't do it.
Spores get me.
I will have nightmares over this map.

Here's a hint from what i"ve seen so far on that one:
Don't try to hold the bottom portion of the map. go ahead and send a couple collectors TO it if you want, for that early collectors-are-best energy rate, but try to hold the left middle-the ridge and platform can be mostly held for a surprisingly long time with just one mortar and one blaster, almost 4 ish minutes if you can. can almost skip the mortar.

Also, it's OK for your early collectors to not be absolutely perfectly placed. Even meh-placement collectors are still better than rectors for booting up your power economy in the first minute-ish of the game.

So far this one seems to be WAY more forgiving than kinlonesport. Can even get a forge up and totem'd, and the HUGE hole means you have a TON of extra time...relatively speaking.

Welcome...to the tormented part of tormented space. There ARE a few maps in there that happen to be impossible, most of them tiny ones. A side effect of them being procedural maps tuned to sometimes be near the upper edge of possible, sometimes they slip and become literally impossible.

I didn't find i needed the ore. mortars are better against deep creeper, after all.

[snaketeeth01]

Beat my challenge. Happy with that.
Looking forward to trying Kinloneport.

This tiny map forced me to hard focus on just how early you can get away with reactor.
But this early balance was very difficult.
I basically had to push throughy to survive the first air wave. Which I did and almost had land force overwhelm me.
Then I very quickly learned.. oh yeah.. just because beams are not shooting now doesn't mean anything.
They are still taking away energy to refill. And before long, fire again!
So you really don't get much breathe room until it tips in your favor.

I took a high risk move of getting forge somewhere around 9 minute mark.
If I can just hold the line I can invest in energy efficiency and start to tip. Phew that worked.

Good to know which maps are actually impossible. And only having to clear a "boss" map in each sector.

Torment pleases me. Makes you suffer, but also appreciate the difficulty and unique mechanics of the game.
Makes me want for Creeper world 4 even more.
Good luck with your challenges.
I shall now push deeper into madness.

For me use of ore alleviates the need for use of energy toward defense allowing energy to allocate toward build.
Ore is strict to defense and economically sound. It is long range and long lasting.
What is totem you mention?
I did find value in the forge black hole weapon, that helped buy a bit of time to shove back.
Also curios why I can find the second Titan weapon and if it will be permanantly unlocked for use.

Do higher torment levels ever make use of more than a single orbital?
What about splitting direction of your resources?
From a glance it seems there is a feed speed between nodes.
If your production rate exceeds this feed rate, you are better to have your resources allocated in a second direction so you are not waiting on any potnetial.
Do you too find this break point where you would rather build in multiple directions as to not lose time?

[fractalgem]

tormented space levels only give you a single orbital. what do you mean "splitting direction of resources"?

alianator is somewhat unusual in that there's "two" areas you can defend at once but they're also kinda just one area with some holes in it.