Why do we need a new gear set each episode?

[Pyroxius]

Having a different combat skill for each episode already is weird, it discourages the grind and makes it feel a little pointless, I can however see gowers argument saying this lvls the playing field for each player each time new content gets released. My issue however is with the armor set. Why are they locked to an episode? Gear hardly seems to impact the game anyway...

The whole atuning thing is simply unfun, and frankly extremely tedious game design. I dont mind lvling combat up, what I do mind however is replacing my gear each time I go to a new zone. Gear should be game wide. It feels bad to have litterly useless gear and go from being decked out in cool equipment to that being useless in the new episode.

Its so bad, I think this could be one of the main reasons people will quit the game. Please consider removing the attuning and seperate gear for each episode. Its just not fun.

[Panic]

First rule of business, corner the market quadruple the grind

[Eventide]

They already talked about this in a news post..

Essentially the reason for it is so you don't have to grind in order to play later episodes. They used the example of this way you don't need to be level 100+ combat to play episode 4.

Go read the news post about it for more information. It actually makes complete sense.

Though I will say having a better way of equipping between episodes would be nice.. like just having 4 different sets equipped that swap based on what episode you're in, but at least right now you have the quartermaster spell and can auto equip there.

[Greb]

Because it's a new, fresh and exciting experience™ and research has shown that a small group of beta testers loved it!

[Omega Haxors]

Whatever they're cooking they clearly think it's worth doing because having to have a set of armor for each zone increases the player's save file by at least 16x with how small it is normally. This is not a compromise taken lightly from a game dev standpoint as the player save is probably the most expensive component for the company to deal with.

EDIT: I wrote a big post proving just how big equipment value is compared to the rest of the game's save file but the more I went into how it worked the more I realized that equipment can be and probably is optimized in a way that reduces it to nothing more than an ID and a single metadata hash in the save. So yeah disregard what I just said, I disproved myself.

[Pyroxius]

Originally posted by Eventide:

They already talked about this in a news post..

Essentially the reason for it is so you don't have to grind in order to play later episodes. They used the example of this way you don't need to be level 100+ combat to play episode 4.

Go read the news post about it for more information. It actually makes complete sense.

Though I will say having a better way of equipping between episodes would be nice.. like just having 4 different sets equipped that swap based on what episode you're in, but at least right now you have the quartermaster spell and can auto equip there.

but it just doesnt, it makes zero sense. It takes away the complete feeling of progression. The why lvl the same skill multiple times? scout = guard = minefighter etc. its exactly the same ♥♥♥♥.

The worst part is by far the gear. like why cant they just make the gear universal for all content. People that have been playing the game should have an advantage. Like whats the point in grinding out skills if it is basicly gonna be worthless next episode. Same for gear, litterly worthless. Like a lot of games have like soft gear resets etc. But you litterly cannot even use your weapon from last episode. It doesnt provide stats.

Its just tedious and bad game design. Imagine irl you need a different set of cutterly to eat in different parts of your house. It makes zero sense.

[Mault]

I like it. Please don't change it devs. Stick to your guns and ignore these people.

[Pyroxius]

Originally posted by Eventide:

Originally posted by Pyroxius:

I litterly read the post, I just do not agree with andrew at all. It feels to me like it takes away the purpose to play the game. Specifically the gear lock to each episode. The skills also but I can live with that.

You are asuming a lot of things. I know you can go back and you will go back to the other episodes. All I am saying why do this in the first place. If you can swing a sword in 1 place of the game, not being allowed to do that in the next part of the game is just bad game design. If you do not see that, I dont know what to tell you.

As for using a different weapon for a different oponent, what? a goblin in episode 1 is the same as in episode 2???? you litterly grind the same weapon again, just now attuned to the new zone. I am doing the grind for carpentry now and im using the same weapon in both acts, just two different ones (2 items, but identical items).

Look I can see the argument for the skills being different, but the gear makes zero sense.

Like I said, you're just complaining to complain. You don't like a core aspect of the game. So quit? Again, if they'd change it all to suit what you want, then progression for the entire game would change. You'd have to get to a certain level to do episode 2. You'd then have to add on to that to do episode 3. Then so on forever. This way they don't have that problem.

There won't be a problem on this game where you need to be like level 600 to start a new episode when it comes out. If you don't like it too bad. Get over it or quit. That's a core aspect of the game and what the developer wants. Don't agree with it if you want. Things don't have to change to fit you all the time.

You are again talking about skills --> WEAPONS AND GEAR. That is what the biggest issue is. The skills dont really bother me, although id prefer if combat was just one skill.

But gear not being usable in the next episode (at all, for anyone not familiar, your gear litterly will not give stats) feels bad and is bad game design.

I like the game, I just do not like this aspect of it. So I am giving my feedback. Remove the gear gating and attuning. Keep the skills. That way you will have your vision but also make progression feel good.

[OnePieceReal]

yea its just bad game design

[deadering]

Reminds me of what cubeworld did after alpha. Really unsatisfying feeling of progression that seems good on paper.

[XJ9]

I like it. Auto equip helps a lot too. Very good.

[Greb]

I think it's a terrible mechanic. At least in the way it currently is. It's hard to understand why they shipped the game like this and thought it would be okay. Not only do they want us to farm up and keep replacing our gear AGAIN, but they also made sure that gear was identical in every episode. Zero differences at all. Not only do we have to replace our gear, but the combat skill that governs our combat capability in each episode also needs to be retrained, and it's functionally identical to the previous episode. Zero differences at all.

It's utter madness.

To improve this system they'll need to do something like:

• Make the equipment that drops visually distinct to each episode. Hopeport Guard themed equipment, Hopeforest Scout themed equipment, Mantuban Minefighter themed equipment, Crenopolis Watchman themed equipment, Stonemaw Shieldbearer themed equipment, etc etc - it all needs to be visually distinct from one another and not just the same stuff from the first episode again and again.
  
  
• Make the combat skills and weapons + weapon arts different. Guards should fight differently and use different weapons to Scouts, to Minefighters, to Watchmen, to Shieldbearers, etc. Different proficiencies, different weapons, different specialisations, different abilities / special attacks.
  
  
• Make all combat skills usable between episodes. Forget about locking equipment to a specific episode, instead make it so your worn equipment determines the combat skill you are using. Equipping a full set of Hopeport Guard armour + weapons will make you fight with that combat skill, and earn that combat XP, and level scale enemies to your skill level of a Hopeport Guard.
  
  
• Gear specific to a combat skill will only be able to drop in the episode region it is from. Fighting as a Guard in Stonemaw will only drop Shieldbearer equipment - this ensures no region ever becomes "forgotten" or "abandoned" into "dead content" because players will still have to go back and farm drops and equipment to keep increasing their combat skill power for that area.
  
  
• As an aside, make it so you can't craft the new armour and weapons until you acquire "blueprints" for them as drops. This also ensures someone with 500 in armour + weaponsmithing skills cannot just bang out a set of the gear as soon as the episode drops. They need to get out there and explore, fight, kill!

This ensures your work is never wasted or "left behind" and it also will still keep things "fresh" and "new" as new combat skills and styles etc are added with each episode anyway. It benefits those who don't want to grind, and benefits those who grind up to prepare for whatever the future may hold. There's no downsides.

A player can decide to enter an episode with their favourite combat skill already levelled up, with gear ready to go, if they so choose - however you can assume that most players will drop everything they have, eager to experience the new combat style and weapons / armour presented with the episode. However they'll still have choice (a very important thing to offer in video games, especially long lasting ones such as MMORPGs) if they prefer or have a favourite skill already.

It also adds fashion and variety to the game. Give players more outfits to hang around in, to unlock and explore, and it might even encourage them to go higher and higher in a combat skill to see how that armour evolves as they level up.

Instead of being depressed at having to level the same skill 4+ times, players would genuinely look forward to the next fighting style and equipment visuals an episode would bring. Bored of fighting as a town guard, they're excited to get into Hopeforest where they unlock daggers and other fast and nimble fighting styles. Or, they're powering on ahead until they get to Episode 8, themed around Gladiator combat, with dual weapons and flashy, garish combo attacks, plus Gladiator themed armour. Something like that, anyway.

This whole system would be beneficial for bossing as well - mixing and matching team compositions to take on episode themed bosses with different combat styles, instead of having four Scouts beating up a Giant Newt or Three Headed Bear. Team composition and variety is the spice of life.

Eventually, when it gets completely unfeasible to add new combat styles and classes to the game, you can explore Hybrid armour sets. Mixing pieces of gear from say, Shieldbearer and Guard ends up creating a "Warden" or "Huscarl" combat skill, which draws from the average of both skills (or simply picks the lowest of the two to govern it) and lets players mix and match weapons and special abilities accordingly.

Include enemies which straight up require a specific combat skill to fight / kill, akin to the Slayer skill of old. For example, a swarm of Slitterfly's - Butterflies with razors for wings - are too fast for any combat skill except Scout to fight. Or the Ironstone Golem, who is far too sturdy for anyone but a Minefighter to crack.

Finally, mix these and have special monsters that require hybrid combat professions to harm. Something such as say, undead Zombie Satyrs - a blend of Hopeforest and Crenopolis enemies - would require a balance of Scout and Watchman (Ranger / Strider / Assassin hybrid combat skill) in order to be able to defeat. Hybrid special monsters would not only keep things fresh but also reward long time players who have levelled up their skills.

Yadda yadda. Sorry if this comes across as pretentious, like I'm saying I straight up know how the game should be designed, how it must be played, or it won't survive, I don't mean anything like that. Just sharing an opinion, in something I feel strongly about. I really dislike the combat + skills in its current state.

I don't expect everything to come at once. I'm not stamping my feet and screaming "NOW!" - MMORPGs are a slow burn thing, with a content feed across a long period of time, fleshing the game out in weird and wonderful ways hopefully over a decade or more.

The game is Early Access. Things are definitely going to change over time. I really doubt the combat + combat skills are in their final form, and instead merely exist as placeholders. I just hope they change in a meaningful way to make combat engaging, as well as to make actually levelling 4+ combat skills rewarding and worth the time.

[Blessed™]

Originally posted by deadering:

Reminds me of what cubeworld did after alpha. Really unsatisfying feeling of progression that seems good on paper.

at least in cubeworld they gave you perma stat boost to your character when you finish an area.. although they were extremely useless it was still something. BS needs to do the same if they don't want to scrap the system they have now completely but give perma upgrades to stats that actually matters.

[Eventide]

Originally posted by Pyroxius:

Originally posted by Eventide:

Like I said, you're just complaining to complain. You don't like a core aspect of the game. So quit? Again, if they'd change it all to suit what you want, then progression for the entire game would change. You'd have to get to a certain level to do episode 2. You'd then have to add on to that to do episode 3. Then so on forever. This way they don't have that problem.

There won't be a problem on this game where you need to be like level 600 to start a new episode when it comes out. If you don't like it too bad. Get over it or quit. That's a core aspect of the game and what the developer wants. Don't agree with it if you want. Things don't have to change to fit you all the time.

You are again talking about skills --> WEAPONS AND GEAR. That is what the biggest issue is. The skills dont really bother me, although id prefer if combat was just one skill.

But gear not being usable in the next episode (at all, for anyone not familiar, your gear litterly will not give stats) feels bad and is bad game design.

I like the game, I just do not like this aspect of it. So I am giving my feedback. Remove the gear gating and attuning. Keep the skills. That way you will have your vision but also make progression feel good.

Your combat skill level determines your weapons and gear. When you start a new episode that all starts over. You're saying to not argue about the skills and only gear but they're inherently linked together.

It's like if you were to get mad that you have to get gear at the start of the game. That's what happens when you start episode 2, 3, 4, etc. It's like starting over in a new game. Again, you're complaining just to complain. You're hating on it just to hate on it. You refuse to *try* to understand the point. You even claim you read the post explaining it all and still refuse to understand why it's a thing.

If they'd remove the "gear gating and attuning" they'd have to change combat entirely. They'd have to change the skills as well. Since new gear is based on the new skill in that area, you wouldn't be able to equip your old stuff anyway. Again, you're failing to see the ridiculous amount of stuff you're wanting them to change to suit you.

Also, just because you don't like something doesn't mean it's bad game design. This is actually very good game design because again it allows people to experience different episodes without needing to grind for days, weeks, or even months just to get to that point. Yet there's still a grind in the game for that to do other things like quests or get better stuff.

[Zen607]

TLDR: It's to force all players to be on equal footing when a new episode releases.

[ap10]

Originally posted by Eventide:

It's like starting over in a new game. Again, you're complaining just to complain. You're hating on it just to hate on it. You refuse to *try* to understand the point. You even claim you read the post explaining it all and still refuse to understand why it's a thing.

No one is complaining just to complain. Lots of people don't like the disjointed nature of the combat system, for several reasons. They can understand why the devs designed it the way they did and still not like it. Chill.