Leaderboards should NOT be opt-in

[jfb]

Here's the way i look at it,

If you care about leaderboards then you would want to see the ENTIRE playerbase on the leaderboards.

If you don't care about leaderboards then you're never going to look at them so why would u care if you are showing up on them?

By making leaderboards opt in it does the following

a. Allows bots to hide easier
B. Makes sniping ranks a possibility which is cringe
c. Creates a false rank-hood for those who are competitive and would like to see their TRUE rank placement.
d. Its an MMO, we shouldn't be hiding player names in-game or leaderboard ranks.
I've seen the argument that the dev team made it this way so banned players didn't show up on the list. If that's the case, the dev's should code it so if player = banned they don't show up on the leaderboards?
I know a lot of people will disagree with me but I'm trying to come to the conclusion that would make the playerbase happiest overall and i think making leaderboards non opt-in is the best approach to accomplish this task.

[JustATextBox]

Agreed. If they really want to offer some kind of privacy "i dont want to be seen" option, then make it permanent opt-out. Once you opt out, you're out, forever. Problem solved

[Ponder]

Your first point could be pro of opt-in: botters won't bother to opt-in, so the leaderboard won't be polluted with botters.

It does seem strange though, making a leaderboard opt-in. But I don't mind either way since I don't care that much about it.

[Ignatius Vulcan]

Are you sure accounts opt-out don't appear?

I'm currently opted-out, but you could try checking out for me:

My name is Tiledalion#1, TL 746 (Currently training now, so this number can change slowly up).

If you can't find me, that means you can hide your stats and that would be heavily detrimental. You can bot and no one would find out until it's too late.

If you can find me, then you just opt-out from seeing the leaderboards, simple as that. You are seen basically by everybody and no one is suspicious of anything.

[Greb]

Yeah I have to agree with this. I can understand the talking aspect needing to be a toggle, but for the leaderboards? Everyone should be on that from default. It doesn't make sense having people just hiding.

Is there even a delay on toggling it on and off? You could really mess with it if you wanted to, hiding your 499 one day and then blasting 500 the next when you saw someone else approaching 500 or something, I dunno.

I mean that's sad, nobody will do that, but...y'know.

It's weird.

Originally posted by Ignatius Vulcan:

Are you sure accounts opt-out don't appear?

100%. Friend of mine wasn't on the leaderboards and then blasted up to Rank 17 in Woodcutting and Carpentry (much higher now though!) once toggled opted in.

[jfb]

Originally posted by Ignatius Vulcan:

Are you sure accounts opt-out don't appear?

I'm currently opted-out, but you could try checking out for me:

My name is Tiledalion#1, TL 746 (Currently training now, so this number can change slowly up).

If you can't find me, that means you can hide your stats and that would be heavily detrimental. You can bot and no one would find out until it's too late.

If you can find me, then you just opt-out from seeing the leaderboards, simple as that. You are seen basically by everybody and no one is suspicious of anything.

yes lol, if you opt out u DO NOT show up on the leaderboards for anyone. thats the whole point fo the opt in structure, so people dont show up if they dont want to.

[Pink]

Disagree

The Leaderboards should only contain those who wish to compete with others. Perhaps those who opt out have no wish to participate in rankings or want privacy for whatever reasons.

Maybe they’re ashamed of having a lower ranking and don’t want others to see?

Why are you eager to enforce your will on others? Do you want more people to flex on?

Just treat these people as outsiders to the system. They have no impact on your gameplay so what’s the problem?

[JustATextBox]

Originally posted by Sobol:

Disagree

The Leaderboards should only contain those who wish to compete with others. Perhaps those who opt out have no wish to participate in rankings or want privacy for whatever reasons.

Then let them opt-out permanently, but make it default to everyone being on the leaderboard. Problem solved.

[Ignatius Vulcan]

Originally posted by xjbar:

Originally posted by Ignatius Vulcan:

Are you sure accounts opt-out don't appear?

I'm currently opted-out, but you could try checking out for me:

My name is Tiledalion#1, TL 746 (Currently training now, so this number can change slowly up).

If you can't find me, that means you can hide your stats and that would be heavily detrimental. You can bot and no one would find out until it's too late.

If you can find me, then you just opt-out from seeing the leaderboards, simple as that. You are seen basically by everybody and no one is suspicious of anything.

yes lol, if you opt out u DO NOT show up on the leaderboards for anyone. thats the whole point fo the opt in structure, so people dont show up if they dont want to.

Well, crap. This is NOT fine. The opting-out should be from seeing the leaderboard, not to just infiltrate the leaderboards after a bot session and increase your ranking with no one noticing...

EVERYBODY should be seen, wether they are private or not, in a real time basis. No exceptions.

[Greb]

Originally posted by Weorhtleas:

Then let them opt-out permanently, but make it default to everyone being on the leaderboard. Problem solved.

This. Although perhaps not permanently. Maybe they should vanish for a year or something. Or maybe less I dunno. Enough that they can't disrupt it or anything.

It's important to have accurate playerbase statistics, even at high levels or low levels, so you can measure yourself against the community. For me it's not about competing with others, it's just gauging where I am and if I'm doing okay.

[Pink]

Perhaps the rankings can still appear but the player’s name is anonymous? That way you know what your ranking is and can see if there’s anything suspicious but the player’s name can maintain his/her privacy?

[Greb]

Works for me, yeah. So long as there's accurate hiscore tracking or whatever so I know where we all stand.

[jfb]

Originally posted by Sobol:

Disagree

The Leaderboards should only contain those who wish to compete with others. Perhaps those who opt out have no wish to participate in rankings or want privacy for whatever reasons.

Maybe they’re ashamed of having a lower ranking and don’t want others to see?

Why are you eager to enforce your will on others? Do you want more people to flex on?

Just treat these people as outsiders to the system. They have no impact on your gameplay so what’s the problem?

if you read my post and all my reasons went over your head and your conclusion was "i just want to flex on everyone else" , then you missed the target

[Danfs]

Originally posted by Weorhtleas:

Originally posted by Sobol:

Disagree

The Leaderboards should only contain those who wish to compete with others. Perhaps those who opt out have no wish to participate in rankings or want privacy for whatever reasons.

Then let them opt-out permanently, but make it default to everyone being on the leaderboard. Problem solved.

What is the big problem of it being opt-in? As of right now, the game doesn't assume your intentions of being competitive (being on the leaderboard) or not, so why should it push you into one direction until you say otherwise, instead of letting you make that decision when you feel like it?

[JustATextBox]

Originally posted by Danfs:

Originally posted by Weorhtleas:

Then let them opt-out permanently, but make it default to everyone being on the leaderboard. Problem solved.

What is the big problem of it being opt-in? As of right now, the game doesn't assume your intentions of being competitive (being on the leaderboard) or not, so why should it push you into one direction until you say otherwise, instead of letting you make that decision when you feel like it?

Because the whole point of a leaderboard is to compare yourself to the playerbase. If you're only comparing yourself to a small subsection of the playerbase, that kind of defeats the whole purpose of it no?

It also opens up a huge list of issues:

1. You will never know who's actually in the top ~10 for ranks. Game says you're rank 1? Meaningless, there could be 50 other people who just have their ranks currently hidden. You could be rank 1 today, and rank 30 tomorrow

2. People can just hide their ranks and secretly compete for rank 1s. Racing to rank 1 in OSRS or RS3 for example, you can actually see where everyone else is placed. See who's ahead of you, who's behind you, how far ahead/behind they are.. you can get an idea of whether you have a good strat, a bad one, etc. Completely impossible if you can just hide your rank and re-enable it at will

3. We don't know if the system is even smart enough to keep track of who achieved the rank first. IE: Let's say you just hit 500 fishing yesterday, but you forgot to enable your leaderboard. Then I hit 500 today, and mine is enabled. If you enable yours, who's rank 1? It SHOULD be you.. but who knows if that's how it works or not

4. Bots are usually pretty easy to notice climbing up a leaderboard, if they can just turn it off then obviously they always will

The two solutions are to either:

A. Put everyone on the leaderboard, but allow people to hide their username. This lets people keep their privacy (for whatever weird reason you care about that) whilst still keeping the leaderboard functioning how it actually should

B. Put everyone on the leaderboard, but allow people to opt out *permanently*. You opt out, you're out, can't come back. This doesn't solve the bot aspect but that's one of the smaller parts, and solves the rest

Personally I cannot see a single advantage to having it opt-in. The only possible one I can think of is "my privacy", but hiding username fixes that, as does being able to perma opt-out

[¤ʕ•́ᴥ•̀ʔっ♡ ¤]

Originally posted by jfb:

Here's the way i look at it,

If you care about leaderboards then you would want to see the ENTIRE playerbase on the leaderboards.

If you don't care about leaderboards then you're never going to look at them so why would u care if you are showing up on them?

By making leaderboards opt in it does the following

a. Allows bots to hide easier
B. Makes sniping ranks a possibility which is cringe
c. Creates a false rank-hood for those who are competitive and would like to see their TRUE rank placement.
d. Its an MMO, we shouldn't be hiding player names in-game or leaderboard ranks.
I've seen the argument that the dev team made it this way so banned players didn't show up on the list. If that's the case, the dev's should code it so if player = banned they don't show up on the leaderboards?
I know a lot of people will disagree with me but I'm trying to come to the conclusion that would make the playerbase happiest overall and i think making leaderboards non opt-in is the best approach to accomplish this task.

I personally don't care about the Board, it just showes how much time someone has.
But IF i cared, i would agree to this, just to keep it fair for everyone.