I regret choosing Guardian faction because it feels like the game wasn't designed around it existing.

[Freya Crescent]

All the Episode 3 professions feel like total crap as a Guardian.
Bonewright is the only useful skill to us, and all of the mats for the entire skill are in Episode 2.
Mining has nothing I can use.
Stonemason and Blacksmith are useless to me.
Bonewright requires a 2nd material (Woodcutter + Carpentry) for every single item, while Blacksmith and Stonemason rarely use them. With Gathering for the bones, we need 4 skills to weaponcraft compared to Cryoknight and Hammermage's 2 skills.
The Episode 3 combat is unappealing because I can level combat somewhere where I have other activities I need to do like Episode 2 while gathering and Episode 4 for Detective Raids.
The Episode 3 quests all have requirements for skills I can't use. The highest Bonewright requirement is 40 but the Blacksmithing and Stonemason need 60 and 46 respectively. This quest unlocks the ability to craft Epic equipment, so it's not avoidable if you want your crafted gear to stay relevant later.

Even in the cave where we unlock the skills, the Hammermage and Cryoknight classes have a human NPC so you can get a good look at their Metal and Stone equipment and weapons to give you an idea of how aesthetically pleasing the class is.

Guardian, however, has a Dryad plant-woman with no visible equipment. She tells us our faction wears Bone, but I was picturing a more Monster Hunter bone armor when looking at the beefy Metal and Stone armor of the other two... instead, our armor looks like leather armor with bits of bone strung to it like a voodoo priestess in a bad B-movie horror film. Our weapons are summarily caveman bone clubs and blowdarts. The Dryad says in combat "the power of plants and nature comes to our aid" but there's no abilities or combat spells in the game, so even that was a disappointment.

In the coming updates, all Epic+ weapons will receive Special Attacks to use in combat, and I can't help but fear that Guardian will once again get the short of the bone club. Where the Hammermage has large hammers and throwing hammers, the Cryoknight has Rapiers and swords and throwing stars and kunai... it just feels like our weapons will get the bottom-of-the-barrel attacks since they're practically pre-stone age in appearance.

Idk what the point of this post is, but if you haven't chosen a faction yet... choose anything other than Guardian. I wouldn't wish this experience on anyone.

[JustATextBox]

Originally posted by Astolfo:

Guardian will be Ranger (DPS) Tank
Hammermage is battlemage
CrypKinght are knight with Ice Magic

False, according to Andrew Gower himself - "all 3 classes will have the same amount of melee, ranged and magic each. Cryoknight wont be better at melee on average than Hammermage."

[Freya Crescent]

Originally posted by Weorhtleas:

Originally posted by Astolfo:

Guardian will be Ranger (DPS) Tank
Hammermage is battlemage
CrypKinght are knight with Ice Magic

False, according to Andrew Gower himself - "all 3 classes will have the same amount of melee, ranged and magic each. Cryoknight wont be better at melee on average than Hammermage."

Thanks for sharing this. It's good to know there won't be some wild tonal shift between the classes suddenly later on.

Alot of the responses in the thread seem to have their own idea of what their classes mean, which kind of shows that they aren't presented very well at the time we're forced the pick one before we can proceed.

[Ratsplat]

I believe currently every equipment crafting skill requires two gathering skills. So you've got Carpentry and Gatherer for Bonewright. Mining and Carpentry for Stonemason, while Smithing requires just a small amount of Carpentry at times but mining primarily.

[JustATextBox]

Originally posted by Freya Crescent:

Originally posted by Weorhtleas:

False, according to Andrew Gower himself - "all 3 classes will have the same amount of melee, ranged and magic each. Cryoknight wont be better at melee on average than Hammermage."

Thanks for sharing this. It's good to know there won't be some wild tonal shift between the classes suddenly later on.

Alot of the responses in the thread seem to have their own idea of what their classes mean, which kind of shows that they aren't presented very well at the time we're forced the pick one before we can proceed.

Yeah they aren't presented well at all. And I still don't know what the real differences will be once everything is all in place etc.

If classes are actually meaningful, then surely there has to be some kind of difference. At some point they said they'd each get different spec attacks. But now he said they won't be any better (or worse) at each combat style. So.. are the spec attacks purely cosmetic? Is everything just going to be purely cosmetic, other than a specific elemental strength/weakness, which really just becomes a weirder combat triangle?

Just seems like such a weird decision to try and force into the game. I can't really see any benefits, and only a long list of potential issues and restrictions

[Elon Musk]

Originally posted by Dahha:

i just hate how stone and metal is right next to the teleport, but us bone bros have to run alllllll the way up past tentacle land every time we want to craft something =/. the unecessary time waste added to this game is getting a bit offputting.
and you know it's there on purpose because why would the timber bank be in the middle of the lawn? not right next to where you make timber, and the log bank be near the trees? or in both spots, its just being purposefully limiting which doesn't feel good.

But the good thing is we are not using any gas! :)

[What is a Woman?]

guardian weapon making prof (bonewright) doesn't require gas, so that's a plus

[Rikurii]

I regret it too lol.

[Freya Crescent]

Originally posted by What is a Woman?:

guardian weapon making prof (bonewright) doesn't require gas, so that's a plus

However, we require Wood with every item while Blacksmith and Stonemason only needs wood for some items.
Also, Blacksmith and Mason share the Mining skill for their skills, while Bonewright needs to go do Gathering in Ep2. Gathering doesn't - to my knowledge - have any quest requirements tied to it, while you need 29 Mining for the Mantuban Legacy sidequest, as well as a smaller req for main quest in Ep3.

[Pyro3000]

Originally posted by Freya Crescent:

Originally posted by What is a Woman?:

guardian weapon making prof (bonewright) doesn't require gas, so that's a plus

However, we require Wood with every item while Blacksmith and Stonemason only needs wood for some items.
Also, Blacksmith and Mason share the Mining skill for their skills, while Bonewright needs to go do Gathering in Ep2. Gathering doesn't - to my knowledge - have any quest requirements tied to it, while you need 29 Mining for the Mantuban Legacy sidequest, as well as a smaller req for main quest in Ep3.

I don't really feel like this is an issue, personally. Woodcutter and carpentry are both required for quests just like mining and the three weapon craft professions. Fathering and Foraging aren't required for anything, but those professions feed multiple crafts. With potions being something every job benefits from, it's sensible to assume people will be leveling them up anyway.

[Freya Crescent]

Originally posted by Pyro3000:

Originally posted by Freya Crescent:

However, we require Wood with every item while Blacksmith and Stonemason only needs wood for some items.
Also, Blacksmith and Mason share the Mining skill for their skills, while Bonewright needs to go do Gathering in Ep2. Gathering doesn't - to my knowledge - have any quest requirements tied to it, while you need 29 Mining for the Mantuban Legacy sidequest, as well as a smaller req for main quest in Ep3.

I don't really feel like this is an issue, personally. Woodcutter and carpentry are both required for quests just like mining and the three weapon craft professions. Fathering and Foraging aren't required for anything, but those professions feed multiple crafts. With potions being something every job benefits from, it's sensible to assume people will be leveling them up anyway.

My problem is that the Ep3 quest, Lost and Found, is so essential (Epic crafting to have Weapon Specs) so it means I have to train every single Ep3 skill when abosulutely none of it benefits me outside of that specific quest.

Blacksmithing and Stonemason skills ONLY make weapons that I CANNOT use. If they made other materials, like rivets or statues or consumables or anything that can be used by another profession that was useful to me, I would consider them useful.

But every item I make, every single one, serves no purpose other than selling - where I could be making Bonewright items for the same reason and if I made one that was better than mine, I could use it! All while raising the skill that DOES make my weapons and later my armor.

Mining serves no other purpose than feeding those 2 skills. I can't use ores. I can't use stones. If there was a recipe in Bonewright that needed metal buttons, or a carved whetstone or fasteners or anything else, I would consider it useful. Every item I mine only serves to further the two skills I cannot use outside this quest.

Minefighter is a combat skill, so Ii'll (eventually) want to level it up but I don't see much reason to level up combat in an area where nothing else appeals to me. If I'm stronger level in Scout, I can finish up gathering Bones or Wood and say "Let's kill some enmies on the way back" or be prepared for a new sidequest in the area that might benefit Gathering, Woodcutter or Carpenter. Instead, since Lost and Found quest takes level 61, I'm training that here - but still, that's not as bad as every other skill serving 0 purpose for me. The entirety of Episode 3 serves no purpose for Guardian outside of 1 single sidequest.

Don't misunderstand: I like Episode 2 and Episode 4 has been my favorite so far. I like the game, enjoy it even. But Episode 3 felt bad, totally uninteresting, as I went through it for campaign. "Cool, found the Crystal. Oh, I have to get 14 mining. That's good, let's do that."
You have obtained useless material for your class. You have obtained useless material for your class. You have obtained useless material for your class. Level up! Level 1
"Well, this is riveting."

Episode 4 took a moment to catch me though, but once I unlocked the Raids it was immediately my favorite Episode. Now, I've leveled up there a bit, but I have to return to the Mines and it just feels so bad. I'm leveling crafting skills that don't benefit me until 60 levels later - higher than any level I have elsewhere - and I get nothing along the way. It's just not fun gameplay.

[Pyro3000]

Originally posted by Freya Crescent:

Originally posted by Pyro3000:

I don't really feel like this is an issue, personally. Woodcutter and carpentry are both required for quests just like mining and the three weapon craft professions. Fathering and Foraging aren't required for anything, but those professions feed multiple crafts. With potions being something every job benefits from, it's sensible to assume people will be leveling them up anyway.

My problem is that the Ep3 quest, Lost and Found, is so essential (Epic crafting to have Weapon Specs) so it means I have to train every single Ep3 skill when abosulutely none of it benefits me outside of that specific quest.

Blacksmithing and Stonemason skills ONLY make weapons that I CANNOT use. If they made other materials, like rivets or statues or consumables or anything that can be used by another profession that was useful to me, I would consider them useful.

But every item I make, every single one, serves no purpose other than selling - where I could be making Bonewright items for the same reason and if I made one that was better than mine, I could use it! All while raising the skill that DOES make my weapons and later my armor.

Mining serves no other purpose than feeding those 2 skills. I can't use ores. I can't use stones. If there was a recipe in Bonewright that needed metal buttons, or a carved whetstone or fasteners or anything else, I would consider it useful. Every item I mine only serves to further the two skills I cannot use outside this quest.

Minefighter is a combat skill, so Ii'll (eventually) want to level it up but I don't see much reason to level up combat in an area where nothing else appeals to me. If I'm stronger level in Scout, I can finish up gathering Bones or Wood and say "Let's kill some enmies on the way back" or be prepared for a new sidequest in the area that might benefit Gathering, Woodcutter or Carpenter. Instead, since Lost and Found quest takes level 61, I'm training that here - but still, that's not as bad as every other skill serving 0 purpose for me. The entirety of Episode 3 serves no purpose for Guardian outside of 1 single sidequest.

Don't misunderstand: I like Episode 2 and Episode 4 has been my favorite so far. I like the game, enjoy it even. But Episode 3 felt bad, totally uninteresting, as I went through it for campaign. "Cool, found the Crystal. Oh, I have to get 14 mining. That's good, let's do that."
You have obtained useless material for your class. You have obtained useless material for your class. You have obtained useless material for your class. Level up! Level 1
"Well, this is riveting."

Episode 4 took a moment to catch me though, but once I unlocked the Raids it was immediately my favorite Episode. Now, I've leveled up there a bit, but I have to return to the Mines and it just feels so bad. I'm leveling crafting skills that don't benefit me until 60 levels later - higher than any level I have elsewhere - and I get nothing along the way. It's just not fun gameplay.

I will say that Mining is technically only halfway useful to me as Cryoknight. half of the resources I can gather don't benefit me as a Cryo. Yet, I wind up leveling up Stonemason anyway because I'm going to get the stones from mining. So, I may as well. My expectation is that eventually I'll be selling the weapons I make to players, and I'm glad to at least knock out quest requirements.

I will say, I feel like you're saying that woodcutting and carpenter are useless, but they unlock arguably the most useful spell in the game. Personally, I still use wood when leveling blacksmithing and stonemason because I get more exp out of it. I get that bones coming from enemy drops is a pain, but can't you buy the timber and bones from NPCs at the crafting area? I don't feel like it's any worse off, and you never have to gather gas leeches and take them to the two different forges that are on opposite ends of the mines.

Personally, I think about it like RuneScape. Was RuneCrafting useful to me if I wasn't a mage? Was fletching? I wound up doing them anyway for total level and money. Was crafting useful to me? (Not really) What about leatherworking? There were plenty of skills that just didn't mean much for me, and plenty of regions that didn't mean anything to me as a result. Likewise, when it comes to the factions, we're going to get regions that don't mesh well for us. For Cryoknight, it's Episode 2. I flat out can't damage Wendigos right now because everything I can make deals ice damage.

Every profession can level up to 500. I don't think any sane person would want every skill to matter to them.

[Freya Crescent]

Originally posted by Pyro3000:

Originally posted by Freya Crescent:

~snip~

I will say that Mining is technically only halfway useful to me as Cryoknight. half of the resources I can gather don't benefit me as a Cryo. Yet, I wind up leveling up Stonemason anyway because I'm going to get the stones from mining. So, I may as well. My expectation is that eventually I'll be selling the weapons I make to players, and I'm glad to at least knock out quest requirements.

I will say, I feel like you're saying that woodcutting and carpenter are useless, but they unlock arguably the most useful spell in the game. Personally, I still use wood when leveling blacksmithing and stonemason because I get more exp out of it. I get that bones coming from enemy drops is a pain, but can't you buy the timber and bones from NPCs at the crafting area? I don't feel like it's any worse off, and you never have to gather gas leeches and take them to the two different forges that are on opposite ends of the mines.

Personally, I think about it like RuneScape. Was RuneCrafting useful to me if I wasn't a mage? Was fletching? I wound up doing them anyway for total level and money. Was crafting useful to me? (Not really) What about leatherworking? There were plenty of skills that just didn't mean much for me, and plenty of regions that didn't mean anything to me as a result. Likewise, when it comes to the factions, we're going to get regions that don't mesh well for us. For Cryoknight, it's Episode 2. I flat out can't damage Wendigos right now because everything I can make deals ice damage.

Every profession can level up to 500. I don't think any sane person would want every skill to matter to them.

Bones do not drop from enemies. They come exclusively from Gathering in Ep2. The NPC does sell bones, but that may not be the case forever (it should be removed. every resource buying NPC trade means harvesting skills serve no purpose). I never said that Woodcutting and Carpentry are useless. EVERY Weaponcrafting skill uses them. Which is a good system. However, you have the OPTION to not use Wood while leveling as Stonemason/Blacksmith.

For Bonewright, there is no option. Everything, EVERYTHING uses at least 1 wood. The bone club is made from 3 club-shaped bones and a wooden club. I'm not joking (it uses Oak). While the other 2 classes can use wood to increase their XP, it's just standard for us and it provides no additional XP for us.

The Leeches are also rather inconsequential. You can do 24 leeches at once, getting 240 charges. Each charge for Stonemason can make 6 rocks into Etched, so easily over 1,200 rocks worth per inventory. blacksmithing can smith without leeches at the Goblin smithy, and the Gnome Smithy uses 1 charge per 6 rocks and 1 charge per weapon crafted, so still enough to do more than hundred weapons in one inventory. (Which is far more than you can store in Backpack+Quartermaster so you'll make more trips anyways)

Making comparisons to RuneScape skills doesn't cut the same way because you can pick up nearly every skill without going through an area without access to it. You don't need to get level 30 woodcutting, 50 firemaking and 55 Hunter to get access to Runecrafting. Meanwhile, if a Guardian wants to reach Crenopolis (Episode 4) and beyond they have to level up a minimum of 60 levels in these skills to unlock the next quest. It's not optional. Then, they have to come back here and CONTINUE doing these skills to unlock what I feel is a VERY important feature: Epic Weapon Crafting and (later) Weapon Special Attacks.

Like you said, going through Episode 2, the skills were useful to you. The quest was useful to you. Why should Guardian be the only one among the three to suffer?

[Pyro3000]

I have absolutely gotten bones from enemies.

As for RuneScape, there were plenty of areas that I had to level up skills just to access. I remember needing to level a ton of skills I didn't care about to complete Legends Guild, for instance. Chopping the vines comes to mind.

I equally have to level Bonewright to level 40. I thought the high smithing and stonemason requirements were just for Lost and Found? I haven't finished the main story in episode 3 yet. So far, I've only needed 14 mining.

[Joshua Cabbit]

Originally posted by Freya Crescent:

Bones do not drop from enemies. They come exclusively from Gathering in Ep2. The NPC does sell bones, but that may not be the case forever (it should be removed. every resource buying NPC trade means harvesting skills serve no purpose).

I agree with the critique of the 3 crafting skills as is feeling pointless. I'd like to see all three of them be integrated in some way to later use in zone 5 or beyond, like having some degree of role in armor crafting or as merchant request fulfillments. Perhaps a chapter where we have to recruit and help gear up fellow NPC guardians, cryoknights and Hammermages to prepare for some grand threat or battle.

Small things to let you know, though, since it's not made clear in the game in ep 2 or 3:

Bone shards are, in fact, dropped from shades in the corrupted parts of the forest, 2 per drop I believe.

The weapon crafting (from what I've read on the forums and have not yet confirmed myself) has a use in epic crafting. Either now in episode 4 side quests, or proposed for ep 5, there will be a function to metamorph the class restriction on epic+ gear. You can (assuming this information is correct) get the skills needed for the quests, then focus one singular weapon profession you like, and make your higher tier weapons from that skill and convert them to your faction and tune them where needed, assuming you keep the crafted epic+ weapons you make for this purpose.

EDIT: I may have been thinking of the Lost and Found reward, the quest you mentioned, which does require rare tier weapons from all 3 classes to make an epic tier of your chosen class, which does give use to the other 2 crafting skills, creating components for your faction epics.

There is definitely room for improvement in how the game conveys its breadth and depth system of progression, and some QoL changes to come, but I'm heartened by what it has so far and the direction it's going.

Hope this helps!

[Freya Crescent]

Originally posted by Joshua Cabbit:

The weapon crafting (from what I've read on the forums and have not yet confirmed myself) has a use in epic crafting. Either now in episode 4 side quests, or proposed for ep 5, there will be a function to metamorph the class restriction on epic+ gear. You can (assuming this information is correct) get the skills needed for the quests, then focus one singular weapon profession you like, and make your higher tier weapons from that skill and convert them to your faction and tune them where needed, assuming you keep the crafted epic+ weapons you make for this purpose.

EDIT: I may have been thinking of the Lost and Found reward, the quest you mentioned, which does require rare tier weapons from all 3 classes to make an epic tier of your chosen class, which does give use to the other 2 crafting skills, creating components for your faction epics.

There is definitely room for improvement in how the game conveys its breadth and depth system of progression, and some QoL changes to come, but I'm heartened by what it has so far and the direction it's going.

Hope this helps!

Lost and Found is the quest that turns 3 rare/purple gear of the 3 separate factions into 1 Epic/orange of your faction (matching the type you put in) and it uses the Average level of all the 3 weapons you put in. That's why I'm saying this quest is not something you can avoid; this is the only way to create Epic weapons - and will likely be a requisite quest for making epic armor if it exists with Armorer in Episode 5.

The way you acquire the Rare weapons for this does not matter, however. So while crafting is the most consistent, you can also get Rare/purple drops from enemies you are fighting, and only craft your own class' rare/purple for the recipe.

I like the ideas for content of us gearing up other NPC characters of our factions though! That'd be a fun way to make the skill useful outside of the class that uses it.

Perhaps they could add something to the workshops, like an Order Board, where you make specific gear like the Cooking/Merchant bounties and hand it over to the NPC at the workshop. This would consume the items we make, remove them from our inventory so we leave to clear inventory less often, and make the other 2 classes use Wood more often as it's required for the bounties.

Yes, I think I like the idea quite alot actually.