Two stupid gamedesign decisions

[VaZRable]

You may ban me or do whatever you want, but I won't hold back in my humble little review.
You may stumble across a little bunker marked with a cross. Once you enter it, you find out its a some kind of stupid ass dark Wilder nest. At some point of completing it, I've started to think it might be the Wilder Queen that was mentioned before, so long was this stupid underground trip. It is by far one of the most boring "dungeons" I've ever encountered in videogames and I hope nobody will do that like this dev did. It is long, it is hard, not recommended to go without a char with stopping power + shock ammo and the worst part - i didn't feel any ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ kind of rewards.

All that mess was for a ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ pair of avenger gloves and AR-64 aka Type 64. I've wasted like half an hour, shock ammo, meds, food and repair kits to get a ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ pair of green gloves and useless rifle, which I could just craft if I knew this dungeon would suck that much. Instead, crafting all the wasted ammo and kits would be more expensive, than these. "Well, at least I could go back to exit in haste so I'll go home" said I. And then the ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ NPCs spawned all the way back to the exit. Great. ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥. Job. I don't know, what was the idea behind this level, but you've made it in a worst way possible. I didn't even clear a 1/3 of map, so I'm already having mixed feelings about what's waiting for me later in the game. I could understand the grind and farming stuff, but not the inflated stats and other stupid ways to increase the difficulty.

What's the second dumb thing? Maybe the Apex ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ in the first level 4 location that act like bullet sponges while being capable of inflicting ♥♥♥♥ ton of damage in response, when you can't even compete with them, despite game telling you to go for a teammate? Nah, thats stupid, but not as stupid, as this Hunter thing was. After wasting all that time on that ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ dungeon and a pair of ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ gloves and AR-64 gun, I get out of the bunker and run towards the helipad. "At least it's in less than 50 meters so I can quickly extract" I said. And then, this ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ drop pod lands right on the helipad despite all my attempts to call for the heli. The game just wouldnt let me do that. It massacred my teammate in one ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ burst, shields wasted and I barely made it to the helipad again, extracted right the second before another burst would drop my team dead.

I don't know why you would do this and who told you this is a great idea. I've seen you doing great decisions, listening to a community, but this ♥♥♥♥ is beyond my understanding. It's not a "git gud" or "lol can't you solve a puzzle" situation. It's just about stupidly inflated stats and POSSIBLY good ideas made in a wrong way. That's a F grade for sure.

[Vyriss]

If you can't hand level 4 areas, then you're definitely not taking your time to explore and loot everything, you're complaining about a "dungeon" taking 30 mins when exploring just one sector entirely takes 30-45 minutes up to an hour to clear and 100% map, clear all buildings and find all the overworld loot/drops

I think this is actually just a skill issue, you may have just tried taking stuff over your weight class, I'm like 10+ hours in, breaks where I had the game afk in the background excluded, and I'm able to overpower level 3 areas now meaning I'm getting closer to being able to challenge 4s, the gear you described are greens, you aren't going to fight level 4 areas in green gear, that's ridiculous, white and greens are starter tier

A bit more elaboration on what characters you were using and what gear would help, if you get bursted down by level 4 apex units or wilders while wearing greens and using second gen weapons, then I'm sorry to say but that's your own fault for trying to rush through and not properly explore everything to get your gear actually up to par for it.

[Emperor Fooble]

I understand what the OP is feeling, I was also annoyed by the rewards at the end.

Those long sewer dungeons are quite a slog, significantly longer and harder than the locked large structures full of bandits, but with the same style reward room.
And it's in darkness which is another layer of difficulty if you don't have night vision, and it's length meant for me that the enemies would respawn on the trip back to the exit.

Overall I didn't dislike the dungeon, I enjoyed the challenge.

But it didn't 'feel' rewarding enough when I got to the end. I think bumping up the rewards a little bit would make it more satisfying.

For the second part of the OP's lengthy novel that could really use paragraphs and punctuation, I like the Hunter battle armour. It's a looming threat that gives me a goal to take on and another reason to continue getting stronger as I want to beat it.

[VaZRable]

Originally posted by Dr.Lumivoir:

If you can't hand level 4 areas, then you're definitely not taking your time to explore and loot everything, you're complaining about a "dungeon" taking 30 mins when exploring just one sector entirely takes 30-45 minutes up to an hour to clear and 100% map, clear all buildings and find all the overworld loot/drops

Shame I can't add screenshots which would make this whole thing much easier. I have 100% exploration progress on every lv1, lv2 and most lv3 locations, since there are some bunkers that need a lockpick, which is not a common drop. I'm pretty aware of how much time it takes to completely explore the whole sector with buildings and cars/backpacks/crates/foxholes included. Your statement in this case was too far from the truth but you didn't ask about that in the first place.

Originally posted by Dr.Lumivoir:

I think this is actually just a skill issue, you may have just tried taking stuff over your weight class, I'm like 10+ hours in, breaks where I had the game afk in the background excluded, and I'm able to overpower level 3 areas now meaning I'm getting closer to being able to challenge 4s, the gear you described are greens, you aren't going to fight level 4 areas in green gear, that's ridiculous, white and greens are starter tier

I've never said I'm having troubles with lv3 areas in general. Wilder pits may be a challenge sometimes, but usually I've been able to handle it even with a more simplistic equipment, while now I have the best green gear I may afford at this point. Why green? Because there is no blue parts drop in LVL3 areas, lad. Literally none. The best thing you may expect there might be the "highest level" green gear. I have 25 hours of playtime and I didn't AFK at all. In worst case there would be like 1 hour of AFK in total. Most of the time I was exploring and doing stuff.

Originally posted by Dr.Lumivoir:

A bit more elaboration on what characters you were using and what gear would help, if you get bursted down by level 4 apex units or wilders while wearing greens and using second gen weapons, then I'm sorry to say but that's your own fault for trying to rush through and not properly explore everything to get your gear actually up to par for it.

If the game wants me to play certain character in fact to be able to proceed with its story - this is a bad game design. Good games let you pick any class or character, ensuring that it will still be playable.
My group stats and equipment excluding details like what is higher or highest level, weapon attachments and perks, because this would inflate the post even more:

- Rico LV25 (group leader, DD): DMR-556 (Full Auto), Avenger helmet, Breacher outfit, Breacher armor, Avenger backpack, Avenger gloves, Defender boots;
- Bagheera LV25 (front tank, shield buster + Crowd Control): SG-1014 (Full Auto), Breacher hat, Defender outfit, Avenger armor, Defender backpack, Breacher gloves, Defender boots;
- Pan LV25 (second DD due to dmg to elites perk): AR-4A1 (2 round burst), Breacher hat, Breacher outfit, Defender armor, Breacher backpack, Breacher gloves, Avenger boots;
- Dail LV25(fire support): MG-60 (4 round burst), Defender helmet, Breacher outfit, Breacher armor, Defender backpack, Breacher gloves, Avenger boots.

If you question, why not every part is, let's say, Defender - I'd prefer giving damage and reload boost to Bagheera over +firerate or +control. Same stands for the armor - I'll value raw defence and condition resistance more than recovery rate or EXP boost. My set is oriented towards maximizing DPS over the mobility or damage per shot and firemode on Pan's and Dail's guns is set to short controlled bursts in order to keep the ammo efficiency and recoil/accuracy control. The worst parts in this kit are the Shield + Pistol, since every teammate is using a Police Shield, Rico using highest level HG-92, Bagheera using HG-75 Auto, and two other teammates using HG-17. I am looking forward to change these for HG-92 so they will be still capable of using the flashlights, while Bagheera in the front and Rico are utilizing laser sights.
As for the ammo - I am using Low grade on default roam and switch to Common if it's needed. In the worst case I'll feed Bagheera with Shock ammo, since she's best at keeping the Wilders away from the group with her stopping power. Pan is utilizing LVL 2 Underbarrel GL. Using high level BORG and Salmon Steak for the buffs, Medical Bandage, high level Field Treats and Bomb Tarts for healing.

Formations used: Mobility for exploration, Firing formation for combat and sometimes Defensive formation if the incoming damage is too high for my shields.
I didn't list the Bigfoot because right now it just acts like a mule with inventory slots. Judging from the item descriptions, I have parts for "researching" EB and Bigfoot, but lack the parts for the upgrades.

Base structures level:
Shooting Range LVL 3
Gym aka Training Center LVL 3
Bonfire LVL 4
Crafting table LVL 1
Storage LVL 4
Bed LVL 3

EB and Bigfoot LVL 1

[VaZRable]

Originally posted by Emperor Fooble:

I understand what the OP is feeling, I was also annoyed by the rewards at the end.

Those long sewer dungeons are quite a slog, significantly longer and harder than the locked large structures full of bandits, but with the same style reward room.
And it's in darkness which is another layer of difficulty if you don't have night vision, and it's length meant for me that the enemies would respawn on the trip back to the exit.

This dungeon was the first time when I've entered it during a daytime, spent the whole night and made it to the exit at the end of second day. I didn't even expect enemies to respawn on the way back. I was already pissed that the whole trip was for such a little "reward" which actually cost me more than I was rewarded in the end.

Originally posted by Emperor Fooble:

Overall I didn't dislike the dungeon, I enjoyed the challenge.

I would love the challenge and feeling of tacticool sewer clearing with a slow pace and careful approach, if it would reward me in an adequate way.

Originally posted by Emperor Fooble:

But it didn't 'feel' rewarding enough when I got to the end. I think bumping up the rewards a little bit would make it more satisfying.

I hope they will think about rewards in this case, because I've felt like it was just a waste of time, ammo and consumables without any feel of progress or rewarding difficult raid.

Originally posted by Emperor Fooble:

For the second part of the OP's lengthy novel that could really use paragraphs and punctuation, I like the Hunter battle armour. It's a looming threat that gives me a goal to take on and another reason to continue getting stronger as I want to beat it.

I didn't even feel like it was a thing that I will be able to beat later on. I couldn't even manage to escape without casualties while it was dropped right on my head while staying on the helipad for extraction. Sorry for the punctuation and other grammar faults. I'm not a native speaker and still in the learning process despite I have zero idea where to get the material for improving my english in the first place.